Jerrod Carmichael

[0] Welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse.

[3] Hello there.

[4] How you doing, Little C?

[5] Mrs. Mouse has Miss COVID.

[6] Yeah, she has Little C, little C. She has Little C. But doing fine, chugging along.

[7] I'm okay.

[8] On the upswing.

[9] We want people to know.

[10] You're on the upswing.

[11] You're not on the down swing.

[12] That's right.

[13] We're very relieved about that.

[14] Man, I don't know why.

[15] I don't know.

[16] This is cyclical.

[17] I can't explain it.

[18] But we've had like four really.

[19] heartfelt emotional ones in a row.

[20] This is one of those four that I just loved.

[21] Just like really thoughtful, I would say.

[22] Mm -hmm.

[23] And so interesting.

[24] Yeah, it's deep.

[25] Gerard Carmichael.

[26] If you haven't seen his stand -up, man, it's almost worth seeing that before you listen to this, but of course, I want you to listen to this now.

[27] Gerard is a stand -up comedian, an actor, and a filmmaker.

[28] He, of course, had the Carmichael show that ran for quite a while.

[29] he has an incredible right now on HBO, Rothaniel stand -up special that's following up his previous two specials eight at home videos also great.

[30] And now he has a new movie out that he directed, which is really, really phenomenal.

[31] I watched it, I loved it.

[32] It's called On the Count of Three.

[33] And it's out now.

[34] So I hope everyone finds On the Count of Three because he did a fucking stellar job, which you'll hear about in detail.

[35] And when he left, me and you both we're like, I mean, he's already super successful and famous, but I think he's going to be someone in 10 years that people regard as one of the tippy tops.

[36] Yeah, he's on a path that's pretty obvious.

[37] Yeah, it's awesome.

[38] Him and Hussin, too.

[39] There's two dudes I'm like just watching them get cooler and better and wiser, and it's really fun to watch.

[40] So fun.

[41] Please enjoy Gerard Carmichael.

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[44] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[45] He's an armchair expert.

[46] He's an object for.

[47] This is great, the T -Rex skull.

[48] It's a whole thing.

[49] Leonardo DiCaprio's for you.

[50] Oh my God.

[51] You know about that?

[52] Yeah, yeah.

[53] We want to buy a T -Rex.

[54] You know, they're pricey.

[55] Like, how much are they?

[56] The last I heard, I want to say someone bought one for $12 million.

[57] They're outrageous.

[58] Actually, shockingly low.

[59] For a T -Rex?

[60] Still, what else do you?

[61] You're right.

[62] They ain't making new ones.

[63] That's right.

[64] Very limited edition.

[65] Mark Twain quote, like, buy land they're not making anymore.

[66] Well, yeah.

[67] Because you have to keep it outdoors.

[68] Like, there's no, like, home that a full -sized T -Rex would fit in.

[69] I'm glad you point that out.

[70] Yeah, that's like a hidden expense.

[71] You don't factor into your budget.

[72] You're like, okay, I've got $100 million.

[73] I'm going to get this.

[74] Shit, this thing isn't going to fit anywhere in my house.

[75] But we want to get a skull and open up a sex hotel like they have in Japan where you can fuck inside the mouth of a T -Rex.

[76] Like on the tongue.

[77] How much to fuck the mouth of the T -Rex?

[78] Well, that's implicit.

[79] That comes with the package.

[80] Symbolically fucking the T -Rex.

[81] Well, we can have add -ons.

[82] Additional stuff.

[83] We are going to have.

[84] to charge a fortune to amortize the cost of this $60 million skull.

[85] Okay, I'm going to start with one question.

[86] When's the last time you saw a movie that you got like so revved up about the actor?

[87] You like look them up when you left.

[88] Oh, wow.

[89] Define revved up because I'll also think somebody's hot and be like, who the fuck is that?

[90] I'll hit you with mine.

[91] You want to hear mine?

[92] Mine's long ago.

[93] Last King of Scotland.

[94] Wow.

[95] Jesus.

[96] Like 15 years ago or 20.

[97] But I'm watching this movie and I'm like, who's this kid?

[98] The lead of this movie.

[99] It reminded me of when I saw you and McGregor, I got to finish you in this.

[100] We have people who have miso -fired.

[101] We're not allowed to eat on the podcast.

[102] Oh, that's what it's called?

[103] Mm -hmm.

[104] Oh, I have friends that might have that.

[105] They yell at me. Yeah.

[106] Prior to seeing that it is on your 23M -E, it'll give you a genetic code for it.

[107] Before I learned it actually was in your genetics, I thought, yeah, you just mean you're irritable.

[108] You're very easily irritated, which just.

[109] own that don't you don't have to say misophonia like don't make it a disease you're just so funny someone said bratt pitt claims to have like a disease where he doesn't recognize faces oh yeah he has it that's a real thing yeah but also it coincides with his career right oh you happen to meet a million people a week yeah how bizarre yeah don't remember the million people he might have it but it's probably nurture not nature anyways last king of scotland i'm watching this and I'm having that you and McGregor and train spotting moment where I'm like this guy is a revelation I can't wait to see the credits James McAvoy go home and sorry okay that was mine but I'm saying we're like I need to see all their work or I need to know everything about them I probably have that with like directors yeah I'm trying to think of an actor but nothing's coming to mind like immediately because I think I've been fans of people going into stuff also being around like you kind of know a lot of yeah names and people and stuff so I'll have to really think I asked you that to say I had that last night with you.

[110] Oh, really?

[111] Yeah, 1 ,000 %.

[112] Like, I'm so excited to talk to you today because I was out to lunch.

[113] I don't know how I missed everything important.

[114] He has two kids and he's not paying very much.

[115] No, no. You hate when people go like, oh, I don't know your stuff.

[116] I'm so sorry.

[117] I'm like, I'm glad you don't know my stuff.

[118] Yeah, well, a guy came up to me on the street of New York.

[119] He started it with, hey, man, I didn't know you from a hot rock.

[120] Ooh, I like that.

[121] And I was like, this is great.

[122] Sir, I am listening.

[123] I didn't know you from a hot rock.

[124] I got to incorporate that.

[125] That's a new one.

[126] Yeah.

[127] That's really great.

[128] Now I've consumed nearly every.

[129] Well, I haven't done the Carmichael show yet, but that's next.

[130] But anyways, I watched your two -year stand -up specials.

[131] I watched your host SNL.

[132] I watched the movie you directed.

[133] And I'm just over -the -moon excited to chat with you now.

[134] And I was like, what, I was asleep.

[135] He's a big deal.

[136] He's a really big deal.

[137] Well, clearly.

[138] Thanks for binging.

[139] So much variety within all those different things that I'm not getting bored.

[140] It's not like I saw your one trick.

[141] And I'm like, all right, I got it.

[142] Oh, that's the nicest compliment you could possibly give.

[143] The first thing I watch is the movie you directed.

[144] So I go into it thinking this guy is a bowl of shit.

[145] They let him direct this movie and he probably made fucking spaghetti out of it.

[146] Yeah.

[147] No, it's beautiful.

[148] It's so beautiful.

[149] And visually, it's lovely.

[150] No, that's a testament to the writing and my good friend Chris Abbott co -starring in it with me. It's a thing I'll never do again, try and direct and star in the thing.

[151] It's like silly and you shouldn't do that.

[152] But it was a learning experience and I really do like the movie.

[153] It makes me laugh.

[154] So I'm really proud of it.

[155] So the dude who plays Kevin's your real life friend.

[156] We became friends.

[157] I'd met him before, but like over the course of the film and he lives in New York and yeah, we became like really fast friends.

[158] What's his background?

[159] Because my wife and I both were like, this kid's really, really good.

[160] Like I don't know if he really has depression.

[161] They found someone that really plays it well.

[162] It's a lot of things that he drew from in his own life, which I'll save for him.

[163] Right, right, right.

[164] But he definitely found it.

[165] He named the character, actually.

[166] Okay, so I'm an idiot.

[167] So that dude, your co -star was also one of the writers.

[168] No, no, no, no. Ari Kacher and Ryan Welch are two guys that I met years ago who are really great writers.

[169] I worked with Ari on Carl Michael's show.

[170] And then he and Ryan both work on Rami, which is a show I produce.

[171] But they're great screenwriters.

[172] They do some television, but mostly they're film writers.

[173] And I just love their work.

[174] It's a really specific sense of humor.

[175] It's a little dry.

[176] I really hate when comedies, when the characters are in on the joke in any way, like any nod.

[177] Me and Ryan Anari connect because we really think comedy's best when taken seriously.

[178] My favorite comedies probably aren't comedies, like things that, like, Tarantino's done or like Cohen brothers are like.

[179] Scorsese.

[180] Scorsese is one of the funniest, yeah, these things that aren't technically comedies are usually funnier because you have these actors that are for real, like, and nothing's funnier than the truth.

[181] Oh, my God, yeah.

[182] You remember in Goodfellas.

[183] Goodfellas.

[184] It's hilarious.

[185] When they're showing him grow up, right, and then they find out the bad grades are coming in the mail.

[186] So then they take the mailman and they beat the show and they just had any of it.

[187] My father and I were like screaming laughing.

[188] Yeah, it's one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen in a movie.

[189] Yeah, it's all hilarious.

[190] Him beating up Lorraine Brackow's neighbor.

[191] Like, that's hilarious.

[192] Yes.

[193] Me and my brother, like, watching like Menace to Society.

[194] Menace to Society is one of the funniest movies.

[195] It's like scary and exciting and hilarious.

[196] It's a specific sense of humor, like hood, sense of humor.

[197] I need to maybe re -watch that.

[198] Was that the debut of Jada Pinkett Smith, as we know her?

[199] Oh, I don't know if it's debut.

[200] That was the movie.

[201] I was like, oh, my God, this woman is the most beautiful creature of all time.

[202] And then you looked her up, ding, ding, ding.

[203] You know, you guys are the same exact age.

[204] We are?

[205] Yeah.

[206] Wait, exact meaning.

[207] That would have been cool if we were birthday buddies.

[208] That would have been very exciting.

[209] What month and day?

[210] April 6th.

[211] It was just your birthday.

[212] Happy birthday.

[213] Thank you.

[214] When's yours?

[215] August 24th.

[216] I am birthday buddies with Dave Chappelle.

[217] Nice.

[218] And David Kekner.

[219] all the daves.

[220] Wow.

[221] It's a good day to be born.

[222] Yeah.

[223] Okay.

[224] So you grew up in South Carolina.

[225] North.

[226] I'm so sorry.

[227] Winston -Salem.

[228] My father's from South Carolina.

[229] Maybe that's where I got confused when you were rolling out the details of your grandfather.

[230] You probably don't make clear.

[231] It's too much backstory.

[232] But, like, yeah, his mom moved to Winston -Salem, North Carolina, where I'm from.

[233] Named after a pack of cigarettes.

[234] Yeah.

[235] Named after two packs.

[236] Yeah.

[237] That's why everyone moved.

[238] It was like a big migration to the town because of R .J. Reynolds, it's a big tobacco town.

[239] I didn't know that was the history.

[240] That and later, Krispy Cream.

[241] When you fly into the Greensboro Airport, there's a sign that says born and glazed.

[242] I've asked Monica this.

[243] She's from Atlanta.

[244] I'm from Detroit.

[245] The folks in the South, they love spelling things with Kay.

[246] I want to just have the best maybe.

[247] Just wonder what the intention is.

[248] Yes.

[249] Yeah, yeah, was Kris Cream like a donut shop cover up for a nefarious?

[250] The country kitchen, and it'll be like, K and K. I don't know.

[251] Maybe they have the people in the South want to get rid of the C for a millennia.

[252] And that the KKK is really just a product of them already loving case.

[253] I don't know.

[254] Chicken or the A. They also could have just not been great at spelling.

[255] Sorry, but it could be why.

[256] What do you think is more offensive, though, to be called dumb or racist?

[257] I think it's worse to be racist.

[258] I think they can be connected.

[259] Speaking of Detroit C words, explain conies to me. Like, what's the origin?

[260] Because I think that's where the South and Detroit overlap, like, chili on hot dogs is, like, crazy.

[261] I forget how many there were.

[262] There's, like, three great black migrations, one of them up to where you're talking about for those jobs.

[263] And then the automotive industry brought over all these folks from Kentucky and Tennessee.

[264] And so there's these little pockets of interesting culture.

[265] Like, there's a ton of Southern Baptist in Michigan, weirdly.

[266] Yeah.

[267] And then, yeah, there's a lot of food that's very distinctly southern.

[268] I actually, on the way here, passed by a white and blue house that looked like the Motown house.

[269] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[270] I don't know if you've seen it.

[271] Isn't it underwhelming when you see the Hittsville, USA?

[272] Yeah, well, you know, it actually makes it cooler.

[273] It's like why this place is cool.

[274] It's like, oh.

[275] Yeah.

[276] It's shitty.

[277] No, I call it like a black steak moan aesthetic that you got out here.

[278] Like, it's very black snake moan out here.

[279] Could imagine Christina Ricci.

[280] Taplas.

[281] Yeah, yeah, yeah, like right here.

[282] You've never seen it.

[283] But Hittsville.

[284] Great movie, by the way.

[285] Hitsville is cool because they were doing global hits.

[286] in this tiny recording studios like A and B secretaries were writing lyrics and like becoming stars and like it's just magical.

[287] So seeing it be so small was actually more impressive.

[288] I think that's a great point because what you're seeing immediately is like, oh, it wasn't a product of some incredible system.

[289] It actually was just insane talent.

[290] Yeah.

[291] Well, it's like seeing the Wozniak garage or some shit.

[292] Just these spaces where you're like, oh, wow.

[293] History.

[294] A friend of mine always refers to like the best creative thoughts is like being these bedroom thoughts right and just like you try and protect your thought from your bedroom from that initial spark to the rest of the world and a lot of times it gets frustrated by production and other people and your friends and your parents and whoever theoretical responses yeah exactly and protecting it keeping it in an organic space like bow made inside from wait bowmate my friend bow bernam oh yes he made inside from a room, which was his office.

[295] That was incredible.

[296] And I want to talk about him because he directed two -year specials.

[297] And that's why we have exposed wires up here and an open bathroom.

[298] What is that going to do?

[299] Take away all the juice.

[300] You're going to get rid of this fire hazard?

[301] Can't do it.

[302] This potential lawsuit.

[303] Yeah, this potential lawsuit.

[304] Get rid of the juice.

[305] There's a couple ways you could go down on that.

[306] Like if you're tall enough, you close line yourself and then you're off the ground.

[307] Oh, no, no, no. It is dangerous.

[308] Capital D. But it might be the magic.

[309] That's right.

[310] And can you afford to risk?

[311] The reason it's like that is when we got this place, we started recording here long before we lived here.

[312] Oh, wow.

[313] We've been recording here for four years and we've only lived there for like eight months.

[314] Awesome.

[315] But the dude who lived here before, this was like a wall.

[316] You can see the outline of it.

[317] And he had a little closet.

[318] And that's why the bathroom was kind of closed, right?

[319] He also had many, many cats that pissed all over this floor.

[320] Very stinky.

[321] So his number one for me was like, get that old floor out of there.

[322] I need new floors.

[323] The day before they're going to put these hardwood floors.

[324] And it occurs to me, oh, shit, they're not going to run underneath this wall because it's there.

[325] And eventually, I don't want that wall.

[326] So I have six hours to go tear this wall out.

[327] Oh, wow.

[328] You're looking at the product of me on a Sunday, underestimating how much drywall dust I was inhaling and whatnot.

[329] And then when I got to that point, I was like, I just need zip ties.

[330] Let's get this up in the air.

[331] You know what?

[332] You could feel the love in the room.

[333] Well, actually, to correct that, if I do remember correctly, you were really angry that day.

[334] Oh, and I wanted to let out a little.

[335] You were in a bad mood.

[336] Oh, yeah.

[337] And you used it productively.

[338] You channeled it in a productive way.

[339] I like that the bathroom doesn't have a door.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Ever.

[342] And I like that y 'all are all people I would feel comfortable peeing in front of.

[343] There we go.

[344] Odd thing to say, we've just met people, but it's a litmus test for us.

[345] So, like, we have guests who've just gone in there, like Milakunas, just went in there.

[346] She's chatting with us.

[347] We can hear urine hit in the water, and we love it.

[348] Yeah.

[349] It's like a fast pass to, yeah, okay.

[350] I know you.

[351] Connected.

[352] Okay.

[353] I'm going to try to do this in a mildly linear fashion.

[354] Winston -Salem.

[355] You're one of four?

[356] That's probably a bit more complicated.

[357] I'm one.

[358] It depends on the parent.

[359] My mother had two children, me and my brother Joe.

[360] So I'm one of two.

[361] My father has a couple more.

[362] Yeah, yeah.

[363] Is he in your life?

[364] Yes.

[365] Yeah.

[366] He and my mother is still married.

[367] I live in Winston still.

[368] Yeah, I have one sibling.

[369] I talk about my brother.

[370] His wife, Valencia, I sometimes refer to her as my sister because they've been dating since I've.

[371] in the first grade oh my god so like i feel as though she's a blood relative is he seven years yes he was born in 78 i was born in 87 actually what is that nine yeah yeah yeah he was born in what 78 78 yeah okay so he's three years younger than me yeah all right we got our bearings you're gonna love his new stand -up special oh i'm so excited i'm shocked you haven't seen it's so up your alley you won't believe it it's fucking beautiful i want to know more about your alley what my alley is I want to know all about your alley.

[372] I could sum it up for you or she could sum it up.

[373] Why don't you sum it up?

[374] No, I'm curious what you think, my alley.

[375] Oh, exciting.

[376] Okay, so Monica loves comedy.

[377] She went to UCB.

[378] She's an improver.

[379] She's hyper -talented.

[380] She's a brown girl from Atlanta.

[381] She's attracted to many other brown stories.

[382] If Aziz put something out, she's on it in one second.

[383] She'll call me. Sometimes we argue about it.

[384] Most times we agree about it.

[385] And then Chappelle, when he hits upload, she's hitting watch.

[386] And she also loves comedy that has some important kind of emotional journey attached to it, some truth to it.

[387] Your new special is kind of the apex of that.

[388] You nailed it.

[389] Wow.

[390] Is that accurate?

[391] Yeah.

[392] Wow.

[393] I may live in your alley.

[394] Yeah.

[395] Oh, I'm so excited.

[396] Oh, you're going to be like the finish line of her area.

[397] Would you add anything to that description?

[398] No. Smart comedy.

[399] But like profound.

[400] Like Chappelle is the high watermark of that of just like teaching you something.

[401] and you don't know you're getting taught.

[402] You're laughing.

[403] At the end, you feel like a weight.

[404] You feel like you've been transformed.

[405] Where I think my last special is different than that, I've made a choice to only talk about me and to explore myself.

[406] That's the thing I'm actually an expert.

[407] Yeah.

[408] I take that back.

[409] I'm not an expert, but that's the thing that I have the license to fully explore and take ownership over and speak about in my act.

[410] You know, I have my own thoughts and philosophy toward my life, but it's probably more.

[411] interior than other stand -up, which I think stand -up has room for.

[412] I think it's something that Richard Pryor used to do.

[413] I was going to say, Pryor's my all -time favorite.

[414] He's the fucking son in the stars, everything.

[415] You have something that reminds me a lot of him, which is this really crazy confidence to take however much time you need.

[416] Maybe there's a war going on inside your chest, and I can't see it.

[417] When I watch you or when I would watch Pryor and Chappelle, I feel like I'm watching guys do backflips on motorcycles.

[418] Like the bravery is off the charts.

[419] To let an audience just fucking feel super uncomfortable and scared for you.

[420] And then for you to allow yourself to get even a little scared for yourself.

[421] For you to do all that with patience, it's crazy.

[422] Cosby too, Bill Cosby, famously, and you do this in your special.

[423] He'd sit down and do a set.

[424] Cosby was somehow very honest as a stand -up comedian.

[425] It's funny how truthful he was.

[426] Obviously, there are details.

[427] But he was telling childhood stories.

[428] It was all personal.

[429] Like, imagine Bill Cosby.

[430] doing something topical right right right right it doesn't even actually sound right i mean i see the clear distinction you're making like chapelle's taking these kind of world events and he's kind of walking us through his point of view of them yeah and issues but they're not at the end of the day it's all about being black and he even keeps reminding us of that like this trans thing he has waded into isn't through the lens of trans or not it's simply through the lens of i'm black and when you guys want to be marginalized you are and when you want to be white you get to be white.

[431] So it really does funnel back into what I think is primary focuses.

[432] I'll be honest.

[433] Like with that whole thing, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about.

[434] Okay.

[435] And I think it's a little convoluted.

[436] And I would love for him to figure that out.

[437] Again, with me, I'm talking about myself.

[438] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[439] Like those arguments and rather that's a personal issue for him, I don't know.

[440] The danger for me is that the things I talk about have personal consequence, which I think is what was exciting about.

[441] Cosby or even like Louie to a certain extent.

[442] Like, you know, it was the relationship between his ex -wife and his daughter, like, that gave it the consequence.

[443] Like, and talking about yourself in such an honest way, especially now, I think stand -up has to kind of evolve.

[444] It has to be aware of the world it exists in.

[445] Yeah, totally.

[446] And the world has evolved and changed.

[447] And stand -up's still a baby.

[448] Stand -up still very, very new.

[449] It reminds me of rap music in a way that I don't think it's mature to its fullest potential yet.

[450] Some people are trying to grow it.

[451] in different ways.

[452] And the world is kind of full of hot takes on things.

[453] And I think there are some people who are incredible articulating a perspective on something cultural and something racial.

[454] And obviously there's incredible value to that.

[455] But you do have to be aware of just like being inundated by it.

[456] Oh yeah.

[457] Yeah.

[458] At least is how I feel like I was like, why am I talking about the president?

[459] You could argue that it kind of is paralleling what happened to media, what happened to news, which is it's clickbaity, right?

[460] We know that that's the monetary juge of it.

[461] That's what the trade is in pop culture is almost like hot takes, reactions, as opposed to what your show was, which is not anything like that.

[462] Yeah, I don't know.

[463] Just the world evolves.

[464] The world changes.

[465] Yeah.

[466] No, I agree.

[467] I also think we're in like this huge artistic phase, which is like, if you look at the 60s rock stars, Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles.

[468] They certainly were going through the same thing modern day artists are going through.

[469] But their response was like, fuck a lot, do a lot of drugs.

[470] That's how we're going to cope.

[471] And it's all great.

[472] Yeah.

[473] And then you see like, I don't know if you watch the Whitney documentary.

[474] I watch both of them.

[475] Oh, Whitney, like Houston.

[476] Yeah.

[477] Yeah, of course.

[478] I love both.

[479] There's two and both have a lot of value.

[480] Then I watched the Amy Winehouse one.

[481] The Amy Doc's perfect.

[482] Yeah, the Whitney Doc's incredible too.

[483] Monaco make fun of me. There isn't a doc about a female singer that I won't love.

[484] They lead the most interesting lives, like fame and talent compounded with, quite frankly, being a one place.

[485] Tony Bennett asked at the beginning of, I want to say it's a Billy Holiday documentary that I was watching that you love, because right, right, yeah, yeah, triple whammy for me. He was asking a journalist is like, all the women, they all crack up, you know, Tony Bennett's words.

[486] But I do think there's an added pressure.

[487] There definitely is being a superstar, but also being controlled by men.

[488] That's the element, I think, is that every one of these women had.

[489] Men in their life who could not accept that they were the alpha member of the household.

[490] Like, they were the one generating the money.

[491] They were the one of the attention.

[492] And every man that ever loved these people, the Tina Doc, I love the fucking Tina Doc.

[493] Men can't handle that position.

[494] And they fucked with these women incessantly.

[495] Ike was beating Tina or, you know, Bobby, what he did with Whitney.

[496] All these men couldn't just be supportive.

[497] It was beyond what they could do or were willing to do.

[498] In those two specific relationships, I could only imagine just it's two artists.

[499] with egos and narrative and that's difficult it's brutal i'm married to an actress sometimes her career is 20 times better than mine i have some evolution on that topic yeah and even for me i was like oh i'm supposed to be making more money than my wife yeah it's just ingrained it's just a societal it's embedded in you yeah and the deepest level so now what i see artists doing and i applaud it and i love it is now you have artists that are like oh it's a beat down and i have mental health issues I think a lot of older people, the reaction is like, oh, this generation's weak.

[500] And it's like, no, no, they're not weak.

[501] They're just being honest about it.

[502] The other people fucked and did drugs.

[503] They felt that way.

[504] They just didn't tell you.

[505] And now, like, a lot of current artist songs are about the experience of how isolated you feel in success.

[506] How could it not be?

[507] It's doing it to everyone.

[508] It's doing it to non -artists.

[509] And artists is just compounded.

[510] You're right.

[511] Now, everyone's got a sliver of it on Instagram because they kind of have their presenting self.

[512] and then they have their secret at home self.

[513] Well, it's why celebrities crack up.

[514] And there seems to be a movement to kind of celebrify your own life.

[515] Everyone is a social media blank now, right?

[516] Like, even the professionals of society.

[517] Like, you go on Instagram and just see, like, doctors.

[518] Like, I'm the IG doctor.

[519] Right, right, right, right.

[520] It's like school teachers who now present, and it has value.

[521] It's a complicated world.

[522] But you have to think about what you're doing to yourself to perform your I've been thinking about that a lot, and especially someone who was, like, closeted for many years, just, like, trying to create an idea of who you are versus being, are two different existences.

[523] It comes at a cost.

[524] Yes.

[525] I want to try to attempt to thread a little through line between Pryor.

[526] So Pryor's big hidden monster was his addiction, among other things.

[527] I mean, he grew up in a fucking brothel, I'm sure he had all kinds of stuff.

[528] So he had this crazy secret that he was battling, and he's in a genius comedian.

[529] you're right could tell the truth so well and he has a huge secret and he's battling yeah and you come out and you have a huge secret there is some weird fuel source of having secrets yeah well protecting them yes because you get so astute at delivering in a way that will not make anyone hip to what's going on yes it's the spidey sense that you have to develop and it's the quick wit you have to develop and you have to be able to control you're in defense mode You are defending yourself at all costs.

[530] And you're just waiting, right?

[531] Yeah.

[532] Tick -tok.

[533] Like, when is this whole thing?

[534] When's the other shoe going to drop?

[535] I have that internal feeling, like, not to get too dark.

[536] Like, I don't do too well at events with a lot of people.

[537] And just like, sometimes I hear the bang.

[538] And I'm like, whoa.

[539] Just like that kind of creepy feeling of wait.

[540] But that's all internalized fear and the shame that I was hiding.

[541] But I was wondering if there was other stuff.

[542] Like, it's a curious thing to become a comedian.

[543] You were funny young.

[544] You're hosting, like, a news program at your elementary.

[545] elementary school in the morning, right?

[546] So you're already funny young.

[547] And you kind of hint at it in your special, like just being aware of lies that everyone's living with.

[548] What do you think was going on other than maybe protecting your true self?

[549] That's probably at the core of it, right?

[550] And then my stand -up was probably me trying to understand my own existence and trying to understand like the darkest thoughts.

[551] I think a lot of my materials, me trying to change my mom or get my parents accepted.

[552] Like, I'm exploring that now a lot in my personal life, so I don't really have the answer to what that was.

[553] Yeah.

[554] But I know a lot of it was a defense.

[555] Some of them were lies.

[556] Some of them were truths that I used as smoke bombs to deflect from myself, because I didn't want you to truly see me. Like, give you enough of a juicy truth that you're distracted by that?

[557] Yeah, well, I mean, I could come out and say the most controversial thing in the world.

[558] I've done that.

[559] You know, I got booed at the Greek theater just talking about Rose McGowan.

[560] like the height of the Me Too movement like Ronan Farrell's ink wasn't dry Oh boy Did like some charity event By the way I still kind of stand by the point I don't know what it is so I'm not I'll do it quickly Because you know why Because I can't let it linger out there My only point was I talked about The Montgomery Bus Boycott and how Before Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat On the bus there was a pregnant Black teenager who did the same And they were ready to build the entire movement around her.

[561] But someone stopped it because she was pregnant and unwed, just wasn't a good look for the movement.

[562] This was a movement built around press.

[563] Yeah.

[564] And so they felt like it wasn't a right fit.

[565] Yeah.

[566] She wasn't the right mascot.

[567] However true her story was, it wasn't right.

[568] And I said, Rose McGowan is that pregnant black teenager.

[569] Right.

[570] That was the context of the job.

[571] Booh!

[572] They said, no. At the Greek theater, I could see you getting booed for that.

[573] But no, it makes sense.

[574] Yeah.

[575] I said that story to say, what the fuck am I even talking about?

[576] I'm not a woman.

[577] Why am I out here?

[578] Why am I the big bad man trying to prove the point?

[579] Why am I even doing this?

[580] And I was doing that because I wasn't talking about me. Rose McGowan wasn't on my mind that much the week leading up to the thing.

[581] It's a news story I read like the rest of us.

[582] I had feelings like the rest of us.

[583] There's some woman who could unpack it way better than my little pithy, dismissive comments on whatever's, I'm sure, more intricate, complicated story, right?

[584] That was a deflection.

[585] I'm speaking personally.

[586] That type of thing was a deflection for me. I do this all the time, which is because I feel shame and I'm a scumbag at heart and have explored all roads of scumbaggery, I'm very defensive of other people who I think are scumbags, but have merit.

[587] And then I'm really critical of people who are, quote, perfect, and I know they're scumbags too.

[588] So it does affect how I see everything.

[589] Here's one I used to rail on all the time.

[590] It's like, oh, all the parents won't let their kids see a Miley Cyrus concert, but they'll spend $1 ,000 to see Taylor Swift.

[591] That drives me nuts.

[592] Like, oh, because she's in the perfect package, that should be something I don't care about.

[593] Why do I give a fuck whether these parents are going to not take their kid to Miley Cyrus?

[594] But I see Miley Cyrus as me. Yes, exactly, exactly.

[595] Because I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, oh, this bitch is fucked up as everyone else, but she's from the right school, so y 'all love her.

[596] So now I have a justice.

[597] And it's personal.

[598] That's right, because I can't look at either of those people without it going through the lens of me in my baggage.

[599] Yes.

[600] But it makes sense to me, you would say that about her, about Rose McGowan.

[601] Yeah.

[602] And also, I'm sure a lot of it, and this is too much to even a peck net, like a lot of my strong, I'm not going to say the word anti -women, so because I don't think I was ever anti -women, but I think I was even super critical because I was gay, right?

[603] And the thing that causes shame is that when you're gay, straight men compare you to women.

[604] So I feel compared to when I'm in the group.

[605] So the things that I'm ashamed of and the quote -unquote weakness that I'm rebelling against, I'm projecting that onto a gender.

[606] A thousand percent.

[607] You know what I'm saying?

[608] Which, if I explained that, kind of can give me license to at least explain why I feel this way.

[609] But I can't not offer you that.

[610] Also, the deflection is so indicative of, like, codependency.

[611] Like, look over here.

[612] I'm going to give you all my opinion, so I don't have to worry about what's actually happening with me internally.

[613] Well, a friend said this now, in the context of our time, the true thing that a comedian can offer is a long form internal story.

[614] Yeah.

[615] I mean, I'm talking about my mom and my family and these things.

[616] That's what I wanted to impact.

[617] But I'm just saying whatever it is, like, just let it, because that's what gives it the truth and the urgency that I think audiences deserve.

[618] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[619] We've all been there.

[620] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[621] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[622] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[623] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[624] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[625] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[626] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[627] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[628] What's up, guys?

[629] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[630] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[631] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[632] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[633] And I don't mean just friends.

[634] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[635] The list goes on.

[636] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[637] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[638] I think most of us feel super isolated in our secrets.

[639] We think we're the only people carrying these secrets.

[640] This is why I've been going to AA for 18 years.

[641] I sit down and there's another person who I would have otherwise in society thought was killing it.

[642] And I go, oh, they can't handle this either.

[643] I feel so comforted by that.

[644] I thought that person's cool.

[645] I respect that person.

[646] So now I don't feel isolated.

[647] And if anything you could give to somebody, in my opinion, that would be incredible, is to let them know they're not alone or uniquely weird or uniquely flawed.

[648] We're all trying our best.

[649] We're all fucked up.

[650] We all have secrets.

[651] We all feel lonely in them.

[652] Yeah.

[653] Well, the benefit of art is to tell these truthful, complicated stories.

[654] That's where people connect.

[655] Not just that projection.

[656] You're saying like the Taylor Swift projection of any righteousness.

[657] I'm not accusing her of doing that.

[658] I also love her.

[659] By the way, I watch her documentary and I fucking love her.

[660] Yeah, yeah.

[661] I love her too.

[662] I hated the parents, not her.

[663] Yeah, but I'm just using it as an example.

[664] Yeah, yeah.

[665] Like the truth and the more complicated underside is always exciting art. You know, bringing your problems to art, bringing your fears, your obsessions.

[666] Those things are exciting.

[667] Also, there's just a reality of a marketplace as well, which is it's also novel and new.

[668] So I'm interested in it.

[669] I don't want to watch a comedy, a movie.

[670] I don't.

[671] I've been in a bunch of them.

[672] I've made some of them.

[673] I want to see dark shit.

[674] That's what I watch.

[675] Yeah.

[676] I don't know if you watch drama generally.

[677] I kind of watch a lot of things.

[678] I love comedy.

[679] I'll watch a lot of stand -ups.

[680] I can appreciate that as much as like a well -done drama.

[681] I just want to escape and I want to feel like the artist is in control.

[682] That's all.

[683] I don't want to be asked for permission by art. Yeah, you want them to have a conviction about what they're doing.

[684] Anyways, I'm going to watch your movie last night.

[685] I'm like, okay, it's a comedy.

[686] I'm just not immediately excited.

[687] To turn on a comedy.

[688] To turn on a comedy.

[689] To watch a movie particular.

[690] I can watch stand -up.

[691] That's specific.

[692] I'm sure like a doctor doesn't really want to get a splinter out of their child's finger, but they, you know, sometimes work follows your home.

[693] I do wonder, because Yeah, I was about to say, I can't imagine real estate folks go home and watch those real estate shows.

[694] But fuck, I don't know.

[695] Chef's probably eat McDonald's.

[696] You know, like, I need a big back on my way home.

[697] Yeah, one thing is true because I watched cars for 14 years.

[698] Car prepers cars are the messiest generally.

[699] House cleaners, house is fucked up.

[700] You know, you're sick of doing it.

[701] Yeah.

[702] At any rate, because you start with this super dark premise, I'm already interested.

[703] The premise really quick is that he and his best friend kind of do a suicide pack right at the beginning.

[704] They're going to kill each other.

[705] They've both failed at a couple.

[706] of attempts and they're done with it and their best friends and they make this pack okay great now i'm interested because how are you going to thread comedy through this it does a fucking great great job of doing all the things being dramatic being funny to your point earlier it's like comedy's the best when it's to relieve maximum tension which happens repeatedly throughout the movie and it's fantastic but i need that thing if i can be the corny guy who quotes poetry for a second Please.

[707] There's a line in my favorite poem by Frank O 'Hare that says, I want to be at least as alive as the vulgar.

[708] Explain that to me. My interpretation, which are, it's open for that.

[709] It's like cursing in church.

[710] You want something that feels truthful, right?

[711] Like, just something that feels like a nerve that was hit, you know, like something that feels real.

[712] Yeah, yeah.

[713] And that can be small.

[714] Like, watching comedy great so that you can focus on a peanut and it could be the most truthful performance.

[715] in the world.

[716] For me, it's like I spend my day talking about these real things.

[717] I consume social media from ghost accounts and just watch people at least pretend to be real or like candid moments that were captured.

[718] And then I sit down and see art and when I see it like feeling like it's asking me to like it that it wouldn't exist on its own.

[719] If I weren't viewing it, it takes me out.

[720] That's what I'm saying.

[721] No matter what that is, it doesn't feel alive to me anymore.

[722] Well, to put it technically, Yeah, it's like you can tell if the maker of the thing is extrinsically motivated or intrinsically motivated.

[723] Yeah.

[724] If the thing I'm watching clearly is the thing they just had to do for them.

[725] Yeah.

[726] I generally love it.

[727] Yes.

[728] And if I get even an inkling, it's for me. I generally won't like it.

[729] Like your favorite actor feels like they were in this world anyway.

[730] Long before you turned it on and they were baked in.

[731] Yeah, yeah.

[732] Like Daniel Day Lewis living in the woods for six months before.

[733] Makes sense.

[734] Yeah, yeah.

[735] Okay, I want to go back, because we talk about it on here a lot.

[736] I'm kind of obsessed with masculinity, and we watch this amazing documentary called The Mask We Live in.

[737] I can never get the title right.

[738] The Mask We Live in.

[739] It's all about masculinity.

[740] Even when I hear it.

[741] No, wait, there's a good trick because masculinity.

[742] Oh, I never even picked that up.

[743] Like when somebody told me that the restaurant Arby's is roast beef.

[744] He taught me that.

[745] You're like the whole time.

[746] Uh -huh, the whole time.

[747] How about I learned when I was 23, I'm reading this book and it says acorn.

[748] And I say to my girlfriend, it wasn't an acorn.

[749] She goes, you know, an acorn.

[750] And acorn's an acorn.

[751] I go, no, what the fuck is it?

[752] You know, they fall out of an oak tree.

[753] I go, an egg corn, which makes a ton of sense.

[754] They're shaped like eggs.

[755] Wow.

[756] 23, I've learned it was an egg corn.

[757] I had that with hamster not too long ago.

[758] I thought it was a hamster.

[759] Oh, like someone from the Hamptons.

[760] Oh, like a hipster from the Hamptons.

[761] Oh, yeah, that's right.

[762] It's a hamster.

[763] Whoa.

[764] Maybe it's a southern thing.

[765] We call them hamsters.

[766] No, that's one of those words where like the truth seems wrong.

[767] Like, ludicrous.

[768] Like, if it's not spelled like the rapper, I'm like, are you, what is.

[769] It's wrong.

[770] Uh -huh.

[771] Agreed.

[772] Okay, this wonderful documentary, the mask you live in, talks about.

[773] It worked.

[774] I saw it work.

[775] Yeah, I'm sure I'll forget it in five minutes.

[776] It kind of defines how our culture attributes masculinity.

[777] And we were watching it and it just became very embarrassing for me because I just like checked every single box.

[778] And one of the points it made is like you can't escape the system without being misogynist in a way because the worst thing a boy can be is a girl.

[779] Like you throw like a girl, you run like a girl, you're acting like a girl, you're crying like a girl.

[780] Everything's the worst thing you could be if you're a boy is a girl.

[781] Yeah.

[782] So how are you going to all of a sudden turn 18 and not think they're inferior or that not have infected you in some bizarre way, which I totally related to.

[783] And then the only thing worse than that than being a girl where I grew up on the playground was to be a fag.

[784] And I got called fag a trillion times.

[785] And it was like the only thing worse than being a girl was that.

[786] And I had been molested.

[787] So I'm like, oh my God, if these fucking people knew what happened to me, I am that thing.

[788] I'd rather be dead.

[789] And it's crazy the power of it.

[790] So I guess I'm just saying first and foremost, imagining that Winston Salem, where you grew up, had to have the same vibe.

[791] No, of course.

[792] It's probably compounded by black community, maybe even more.

[793] Yeah, hypermasculine would probably describe, like, just growing up in the South and my neighborhood.

[794] I mean, it's obviously the most complicated conversation in the world because I've been thinking about that a lot, constructs and things that are born of necessity, but then the necessity changes.

[795] And that's what I'm saying about things evolving.

[796] Marriage, for instance, itself, it makes sense, like, just to have a guarantee for children.

[797] It was a land deed thing that I'm sure in the context of the time was something that made sense for them.

[798] Yeah, yeah.

[799] And just being open to that evolving, far be it for me to sort the natural from the talk or whatever, but, like, stopping at a crosswalk is new for our society.

[800] Like, you know, a little hand, an orange hand tells you to stop.

[801] And then we stop because we know what it means.

[802] And we've adjusted for that.

[803] allowed room for cars.

[804] Right.

[805] We've allowed room for taxes.

[806] Like, we've allowed room for these things that allow us to coexist in harmony.

[807] And that's a constantly evolving thing.

[808] And we just have to be aware of that.

[809] Holding on to something, masculinity, whatever that is, I think we just have to be thoughtful about our approach to these things.

[810] Well, I think there's a big socioeconomic component because I grew up in what I affectionately recall is like total white trash.

[811] so the dudes in the other town there was a golf course they could display their masculinity they could wear a golf shirt they could go golfing they could drive a certain kind of car but in the neighborhood where i'm from where no one could really peacock or have status through anything material or any kind of career achievement or any kind of educational status it really just get down to the most primitive like were you a badass or not could you kick ass did you fuck a lot oh yeah and so i think that In a group of people where masculinity has been stolen from them, I think these other displays, the only ones you can achieve, become very obvious why they would be so exaggerated.

[812] You're overcompensating because you feel worthless.

[813] I felt worthless, not having money.

[814] And we found our ways to Peacock, you know, keeping shoes white.

[815] Like, probably one of the biggest evolutions I've ever seen over my lifetime is watching white people wear Air Force once.

[816] It's been the craziest change in my life, because that was just reserved for the hood.

[817] and we would keep them white.

[818] And you couldn't have the toe get wrinkled.

[819] But think about that, my shoes were a status symbol of my, like, I don't know, cleanliness and masculinity, all these things.

[820] I couldn't keep.

[821] I had white shoes in North Carolina.

[822] Yeah.

[823] It's not even sidewalks everywhere.

[824] And, like, I got to walk home from school, and I feel like I'll be judged if my sneakers aren't white is just these silly games we played to overcompensate.

[825] Yeah, being the opposite of that was exponentially punished.

[826] So, like, any kind of weakness.

[827] in quotes.

[828] Weakness.

[829] Femininity.

[830] Gayness.

[831] All of it was the death sentence in the absence of other ways to achieve or grab status.

[832] But that's what I'm saying.

[833] Just even thinking about weakness.

[834] Like, I think there's room for like facts.

[835] Are men stronger than women?

[836] Okay.

[837] Do you need to go kill an elk today?

[838] Right.

[839] Or are we like driving, taking what you need and get rid of the other?

[840] I guess I say all that because when I, decided to be honest about my trauma.

[841] The voice I heard in my head was, this fucking dude needs so much attention.

[842] That was probably the voice that was keeping me from being honest about all my shit.

[843] Did you feel ashamed to ask for that attention?

[844] I could hear the detractors.

[845] And what they would be saying is, boo -hoo, I need so much attention.

[846] Oh, you were molested.

[847] What do you need so?

[848] I remember when I was a kid, like Roseanne came out about having been molested and raped.

[849] And where I was from, people were like, oh, get over yourself.

[850] You need so much attention.

[851] That's like a bad.

[852] step is to be trying to get sympathy.

[853] Victimy, get sympathy.

[854] I remember Jason Ellis saying this when he was on Stern.

[855] He was talking about his father and when I was seeing him, that he had family members that like, that didn't happen.

[856] You just want attention.

[857] That's where the voice in my head goes is like, people are going to think I just want attention.

[858] Do you have that voice?

[859] No, of course.

[860] I'm just hearing you say that.

[861] I mean, it's devastating because it's like you can hear the fear in their perspective.

[862] It's like, who knows what experiences or traumatic events they're blocking the out.

[863] But say it's one in four.

[864] So a lot of those voices, yeah.

[865] Yeah, a lot of it's that.

[866] They were affected in some way by it.

[867] You know, my mother blocks out a lot of things because, you know, survival.

[868] And it's very difficult.

[869] And I'm thankful that I feel like we're the first generation of men who are able to speak on how we're feeling with reward, not even just like not being shunned.

[870] A very important thing happened in my special.

[871] I think it really showcased the sense of community that I've been lacking and that I need it because I, I, said difficult things and you could see it being met with love you need that you need validation for that the most mirror neurony moment I had watching your special was when you say it and then people applaud you and to me I could feel in my body what that would be like yeah I was terrified of being a victim yeah terrified I don't even know what that means anymore because it's just like we all have a thing in our lives and you even said it I'm not saying I'm retarded I hope people get what I meant by that was kind of a showcase of the alternative like it's what the ego does you know it's like me speaking from ego of like what my ego wanted to say so that was the intention of that you should never explain intention in art but here i am no but it's relevant it's important to say we didn't get married before domo was struck down we were very public about that we led rallies i don't call people fag it doesn't exist in my mind when something happens to me and i hit my hand on the wrench.

[872] I hear it was seared into me, right?

[873] Yeah, yeah.

[874] I've said about myself jokingly a lot, but it's not a joke.

[875] Now when I say it out loud as a joke, it is trying to take power back from the thing that I feared the most.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Batman Beginn really nailed it.

[878] Batman Biggins was about how he became Batman is because he was afraid of bats.

[879] Oh, right.

[880] And so he just like lead in immersion therapy.

[881] Yeah, immersion therapy.

[882] And I'm like, man, that Chris Nolan's good.

[883] Yeah.

[884] But I do it with being an addict.

[885] So I always call myself a junkie or I call myself an alky or whatever.

[886] So this show for the first three years I had at that time been like 16 years sober.

[887] I talk about sobriety nonstop.

[888] I relapsed during quarantine.

[889] And I had to say that to people because a lot of people reached out to me and looked up to that or whatever.

[890] And so we had to record an episode where Monica and I went through what that whole experience was like.

[891] And that part was all really manageable.

[892] Do you remember the moment you decided to say it?

[893] I'm happy that I have friends that I I break boundaries with that I, like, let in.

[894] So I say the things that before used to be, it's staying open.

[895] It's why I do psychoanalysis.

[896] It's like for a couple hours a week, I just have to be honest.

[897] Yes.

[898] I have to be honest.

[899] Not only, like, you know, falling off a wagon, but telling people.

[900] Especially when that was a bit of my own identity that I really love.

[901] My ego loved that I had had 16 years of sobriety that many people that listen to this show have explored sobriety because I'm so vocal about it.

[902] It's such a big part of this show, of you.

[903] of everything yes so the notion that i wouldn't have that anymore scared me because that was like a cornerstone of what i liked about myself right so without this what do i have to offer one two there's a reality of like a financial implication like i have all these sponsors the product was this now if i'm the dude who's been doing oxies for the last three months am i a fraud across the board is everything i say no longer hold up and i was talking to a friend of mine who have known through sobriety for a long, long time.

[904] And I said, I don't know what to do.

[905] I certainly don't want to tell anyone this.

[906] And he said, well, what do you like about being this figure that it encourages people gets over?

[907] And I said, well, I mean, I'm not a very philanthropic dude.

[908] Like, I don't really care too much.

[909] That's one thing I did that I liked.

[910] And he said, okay, well, then if you're sincere, you're not helping anybody by having 16 years of sobriety.

[911] But if you go out there and say, oh, yeah, I had this and I fucked up and here's why.

[912] That's actually helpful.

[913] Yes.

[914] So basically he put it on to me as like, well, if you're true.

[915] truthful about wanting to help people, and it's not just your ego, then you have no choice but to do it.

[916] The thing that you thought could destroy that relationship that you have strengthens it.

[917] You don't know that.

[918] It's like what a roller coaster is, you get to the top and you see the drill.

[919] You don't know you're going to survive it.

[920] Yes.

[921] Your body does it.

[922] Like your body's like, well.

[923] So we put this thing out and then it was just beautifully received, right?

[924] So it was not at all what I feared.

[925] And in fact, it was maybe an episode people love the most.

[926] And then it shifted immediately to the thing I'm talking about when I was watching you on stage, which is now people are clapping.

[927] Yeah.

[928] And now I feel like, oh, no, like, I've somehow lied even deeper where they're applauding my mistake.

[929] I'm not worthy of this.

[930] Did you experience it?

[931] Is that the moment I saw?

[932] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[933] And you even said, I'm like, I just sucked a fucking Haitian dude's dig or whatever you said.

[934] I didn't earn this applause.

[935] Yeah, like, what do I do?

[936] I think we're all just like making eye contact, looking for the truth.

[937] Like, just looking for some type of true connection.

[938] Yes.

[939] Like in someone.

[940] And the applause is thank you for allowing me. end.

[941] This is better for us.

[942] Yes.

[943] I think the applause is the reward for the truth, not because you added some arc to the story.

[944] But it's accepting it.

[945] Yeah.

[946] It's hard, though, don't you think?

[947] Yeah, it's difficult.

[948] Yeah.

[949] Now I recognize it.

[950] Like, oh, the thing people, yeah, were applauding was like, I recognize that was hard for you.

[951] And you did it.

[952] So I'm proud of you for doing the thing that was more.

[953] Yes.

[954] But the first feeling internally is like, oh, no, I don't deserve this.

[955] Because I've associated with I'm bad because of this.

[956] No, of course.

[957] I've been saying to.

[958] friends like everybody's in the closet about something yes there is something in your life that causes you deep shame that you just don't want people to know and saying it like in context of your online like coming out means something different in hollywood now than when ellen did it i'm aware of that right it means something different in my household than it meant in other people's house like it's just the context of your life that matters that builds that secret that builds that fear But you have this great moment, and I loved it because I could feel the authenticity of it, which is like, you're looking at a dude in the audience who's not loving this.

[959] And you're like, you're like, dude, I know.

[960] I know, man. I know.

[961] I'm from the hood in the South.

[962] I know what you're saying.

[963] Sometimes I'm in the shower.

[964] I'm like, fuck.

[965] I'm fucking gay.

[966] You can't give me any homophobia that I haven't given myself.

[967] I've internalized so much of it.

[968] And I'm trying to work so far out of it.

[969] But I've said it.

[970] I've already said it.

[971] I've been on both sides of that.

[972] It's so real.

[973] And that's what I'm saying about like even just going back to comedy, like being able to articulate the full breadth of your experience, being able to say like, oh, I was on both sides of that.

[974] Oh my God.

[975] I'm realizing something right now, as you say it, that comedy hasn't changed, right?

[976] So what happened was someone said out loud something we had all felt on an airplane, which is, oh, this food's terrible, whatever it is, right?

[977] The decade of airplane jokes.

[978] And then Seinfeld's like, he points out something we've all been feeling.

[979] And there's this look.

[980] That's the joy of the comedy.

[981] And so it's the same thing right now, which is like you're just pointing out something we've all felt.

[982] Or it wouldn't work.

[983] Yes.

[984] That's where we're connecting.

[985] That's what I'm saying when your audience applauds you, they felt that.

[986] They've been there.

[987] Yes.

[988] Yeah.

[989] So it's funny because it's like, it seems like comedy's evolving so much.

[990] And yet really the topics evolving for sure.

[991] And the vulnerability is maybe moving.

[992] Yeah.

[993] Yeah, it's personal.

[994] Now it's like the observation isn't about the shopping market in the fucking bad wheel on the shopping cart and the airplane food.

[995] Guess what?

[996] The us, who we all think are so individual, were as predictable as the shopping cart.

[997] Yeah.

[998] The conversation changes.

[999] Just using as example, I host the SNL, the Sunday before the Saturday that I hosted was when the Oscar Will Smith, Chris Rock.

[1000] Over the course of that week, the whole bit is about how the conversation has changed.

[1001] It wasn't a about the event anymore.

[1002] By the time I hosted SNL, it was about the conversation about what happened.

[1003] I'm saying that to say that comedy is like that, too.

[1004] Art is like that where like it just evolves over time.

[1005] Like it can be about something else.

[1006] Well, it has to almost.

[1007] It has to comment on the previous version of itself every time or you wouldn't watch it.

[1008] Always, yeah.

[1009] So right, the conversation on Thursdays got to be unique from Wednesdays.

[1010] It's a necessity or you wouldn't talk about it.

[1011] Exactly.

[1012] Generally by Friday, I think we've come at this from every fucking angle.

[1013] We've gone to the well too many times.

[1014] I live in a world where with airplane food, not only does Twitter exist and someone's on a flight every day and making an astute observation about it, but also 30 years of Jerry Seinfeld material exists on YouTube and various streaming services.

[1015] Your preferred platform.

[1016] Because I say that because people will talk to me sometimes about launching shows or like I remember having a conversation about relaunching Martin.

[1017] And I'm talking to Martin Lawrence about they want to relaunch Martin.

[1018] And I'm like, hey, just so you know, Martin's still on.

[1019] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1020] Like my niece and nephew watched it like a week ago.

[1021] So, like, it's still on.

[1022] It's not Desi Arnaz where people are like discovering reruns.

[1023] We live in rerun culture.

[1024] We live in a culture where I grew up on rap samples of 80 songs.

[1025] And now I'm hearing repurposing of the songs that were sampled from the rap.

[1026] It's all Russian doll.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] You know, so you have to be aware of it.

[1029] I guess is what I'm saying.

[1030] Yeah, I didn't see it.

[1031] Then I got sent to all these things.

[1032] My whole view was wrong side of the tracks.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] To me, it was like, oh, right, so the fucking people in my town are like, look how they're living.

[1035] Look how they do this.

[1036] We know better.

[1037] My take was if Robert De Niro smacked, you named the white actor, it'd be silly, it'd be embarrassing.

[1038] It'd be ridiculous.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] It wouldn't be a salt.

[1041] Well, you and I grew up poor, and that's rare in this industry.

[1042] It's hard, right?

[1043] Because to be an artist, even a comedian or whatever, like it usually takes some floating.

[1044] Usually like your parents got to have some bread or you got to have something like just to survive.

[1045] It's like, you know, no one's paying you at first.

[1046] And so a lot of the industry's perspective, it reflects that.

[1047] It's why a lot of times when you hear comments from just amongst entertainers, you could tell the perspective difference between a lot of directors or actors and like an NBA player or a rapper.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] You know, like or country artists, right?

[1050] You could tell who grew up redneck, white trash.

[1051] I've been saying this forever.

[1052] Yeah, white trash people and black people have way more in common than I have with.

[1053] You could tell the perspective of people who grew up poor versus not.

[1054] Also, let me just add, because I watch my mom get beat up by stepdad's person who's critical of this.

[1055] Did your mom get beat up in front of you?

[1056] And was a verbal insult what happened first?

[1057] And if you told yourself, that won't happen to her again on my watch.

[1058] Yes.

[1059] Is that part of the history?

[1060] That's part of my history.

[1061] Personal.

[1062] Our perspective on it will be shaded and experience.

[1063] Yes.

[1064] And it's going to change whether two women smacked each other, whether two gay dudes smacked each other, whether a guy smacked a woman.

[1065] But I think then the big takeaway, it can't be, well, I would do the same thing or I wouldn't do the same thing.

[1066] It's like, this is just very gray and complicated.

[1067] It's way more complicated than people want to make it out to be.

[1068] And like maybe you just leave it there.

[1069] Like that's the end.

[1070] It's more complicated.

[1071] And even like with the Johnny Depp stuff happening right now, of course my mom like texting me, are you following this?

[1072] Yeah, yeah.

[1073] Because she's like most people.

[1074] Yeah, yeah.

[1075] It's something, unfortunately, unifying quote.

[1076] I hate that.

[1077] Can I say this?

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] The Johnny and Amber thing, I think we're all collectively, like, kind of looking around each other.

[1080] You know what?

[1081] Domestic violence is wrong and disgusting.

[1082] I have a crackhead aunt and uncle.

[1083] They call us because they got in a fight.

[1084] Guess who's not going over there?

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Nobody would any sense.

[1087] Exactly.

[1088] Like, you look at Amber, you're like, oh, this bitch is a lunatic.

[1089] You look at him.

[1090] You're like, this motherfucker is a lunatic.

[1091] little tick.

[1092] Why do I?

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] No, no. And that's what my mom, she's like, oh my gosh, like she's crazy.

[1096] And I was like, it seems like there's mutual toxicity there.

[1097] And that's kind of where I'm going to leave it.

[1098] Crazy find crazy.

[1099] They found each other for that reason.

[1100] It's obviously incredibly unhealthy.

[1101] But that's their issue.

[1102] It's not for us to figure out who's right and wrong in that relationship.

[1103] Because obviously, it's just a disaster.

[1104] They were also unfortunately made for each other.

[1105] Exactly.

[1106] I wish I knew more about it.

[1107] All I heard is that someone pooped in a bed, which I've done in an orgy.

[1108] I've set it on now.

[1109] You've lived.

[1110] Very honest.

[1111] Yeah, I was all coked up and the other three folks like walked 10 feet.

[1112] Like I was in a suite in quotes at the St. Regis Hotel.

[1113] Is it still a sweep if someone's taking a shit?

[1114] Yeah, it's a good question.

[1115] And the other three walked to like a couch where you're at.

[1116] I'm in bed still.

[1117] They're now having breakfast.

[1118] I'm not hungry because I'm gacked out of my mind.

[1119] And we've already had the escapades.

[1120] And I think, I'm just get out this a little fart out right now while they're over there.

[1121] This would probably be fine.

[1122] And then on the meet and like, oh no, oh my goodness, what now?

[1123] They're right there.

[1124] I just kind of roll over and take all the sheets with me and then I walk into the bathroom and then I hop in the shower.

[1125] Like, I'm in the mood to shower off after that.

[1126] Wow.

[1127] It lets me know that you're a good person and still have your bearings.

[1128] You have your bearings even after an event like that because there's a version of that story where it just happens and you get up and eat breakfast.

[1129] True.

[1130] Desire to be that person.

[1131] You knew that it wasn't great.

[1132] Exactly, exactly.

[1133] And I was asked later, and the shower made total sense to everyone.

[1134] Of course, we just all made love.

[1135] Let's call it that.

[1136] What happened to all our sheets?

[1137] Why did you take the sheet up?

[1138] And then, and this is probably, I guess, massaginistic.

[1139] Well, no, I wasn't specific about it.

[1140] I was just like, oh, there was just some sex funk on it.

[1141] I thought I'd rinse it off.

[1142] You blamed it on, like, girl cream?

[1143] No, because there could have been semen.

[1144] Okay.

[1145] Yeah, yeah, I could be in a pinch, I would have blamed girls.

[1146] I mean, I couldn't have possibly said.

[1147] We talked about the things you'll do to protect yourself.

[1148] That's right.

[1149] That's a prime example.

[1150] I can't think of anything clear.

[1151] It's so primal.

[1152] In my defense, too, when I decided to let that tiny little toot out, I hadn't eaten in fucking 18 hours.

[1153] That is confusing.

[1154] I've been railing coke for a long time.

[1155] I'm not expecting anything.

[1156] No, I feel you.

[1157] I'm glad I got that off my chest.

[1158] No, I think I'm being a part of that.

[1159] I feel closer to you, though.

[1160] That was the goal.

[1161] And I hope everyone at that breakfast felt closer to you.

[1162] They don't know.

[1163] still.

[1164] Well, now they know.

[1165] I wonder if they know.

[1166] Like, I wonder if any of those three great folks.

[1167] I like calling it a breakfast too.

[1168] Yeah.

[1169] Well, it was.

[1170] Again, I'm gacked up.

[1171] It turned into like nine o 'clock in the morning.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] And they're hungry.

[1174] I'm like, I'm not hungry.

[1175] I'm hungry from okay.

[1176] Yeah, yeah.

[1177] You were still full.

[1178] Yes, I was satiated.

[1179] My lust had been slaked.

[1180] Oh, that's a great word.

[1181] Isn't that a good term?

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] Lust had been sliked.

[1184] Slaked.

[1185] Wait, what's the good term we heard earlier?

[1186] The person who stopped you on the street?

[1187] Oh, I didn't know you from a hot rock.

[1188] Oh, that's good.

[1189] That sounds so southern, right?

[1190] Yeah, you know, it's funny.

[1191] It happened in New York City, and that is such a, like, southern.

[1192] My grandmother was from Hazard, Kentucky, as was my grandpa.

[1193] Is that what Duke's of Hazard?

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] Okay.

[1196] Yeah, which thrilled me to no end as a kid.

[1197] Learning it in this moment, but we don't even have to stay in it.

[1198] It makes sense.

[1199] I'm like, yeah, okay, it's a real place.

[1200] Yeah, real place.

[1201] So she used to say stuff like, oh, it smells like a pole cat in here.

[1202] Wow.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] If it rained while the sun.

[1205] was out?

[1206] Devils beaten his wife, yeah.

[1207] I've been reflecting on that saying for years.

[1208] Like, so are we supposed to be happy?

[1209] Right.

[1210] It's a great question.

[1211] The sunshine represents our collective happiness.

[1212] Or the devils?

[1213] At least the devil and his wife are unhappy.

[1214] Or is the wife really bad because it's married to the devil?

[1215] So it deserves to get beaten?

[1216] Is it Johnny and Amber?

[1217] Is the devil and his wife Johnny Depp and Amber heard?

[1218] And when the sun shines when it rains, just the deposition.

[1219] Exactly.

[1220] I swear to God, my reaction to that, even at, like, eight years old was, why is the devil married?

[1221] Like, isn't that something like Christians do?

[1222] Who is this bitch?

[1223] Yeah, like, why did he settle down?

[1224] But then you realize, like, the Menendez brothers are both married and, like, manson was, you're like, yeah, somebody will marry the devil.

[1225] But if any dude could have said, like, no, I'm not getting married.

[1226] I just want to fuck.

[1227] It'd be the devil.

[1228] Devil doesn't enjoy sex, though.

[1229] That's the thing.

[1230] Oh, he doesn't.

[1231] No, he doesn't.

[1232] No, the devil is obviously manipulating the wife like making her feel loved then beating her and then yeah a gaslightened devil that's right that's a great argument that's a devil he only married her to further her suffering so the sunshine is her receiving clarity at least oh that's a great way yeah but then it rains again she just back in it is the sunshine the brief moment of clarity that the devil's wife receives well she sees like i gotta get out of here i'm in But then she doesn't.

[1233] I imagine the son was the devil was happy because he's doing one of his favorites things, beating his wife.

[1234] And the wife's crying.

[1235] He's the worst guy on the planet, right?

[1236] Or he's not even on the planet, but he's the worst dude.

[1237] In the planet.

[1238] You have to imagine the worst dude in the world.

[1239] A demon has definitely gotten the devil a worst dude in the world mug for his birthday.

[1240] Where's dad in the world?

[1241] Is he a dad too?

[1242] Is he the fuck with being a dad as well?

[1243] He's a husband.

[1244] Oh, God.

[1245] He's a pauper.

[1246] Don't forget that the devil is still at the end of the day.

[1247] Just a dad.

[1248] He's a dad.

[1249] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1250] Okay, I want to say two more things that made me crazy during your recent stand -up special, which is on HBO Max.

[1251] Everyone should watch.

[1252] It's incredible.

[1253] I applaud you for this.

[1254] You're kind of inviting people to talk to you during the show.

[1255] And two things happened where I was watching in a panic.

[1256] You say, I'm telling you.

[1257] it all tonight and then someone yells yeah except for your first name monica he hates his first name more than anything he's hitting it on his bank cards he won't let anyone see his license he hates his first name so she says mid show except for your name and you acknowledge it and i turn to christ and i go he's fucked right now because he's going to tell us his name at the end of this he knows he's closing on that but now he's in the situation where he's going to not address that and he's almost going to look like a hypocrite for a bit until he does at the end And in that moment, are you feeling like, oh, shit, I'm losing control.

[1258] Like, I've invited this in and I can make this work.

[1259] Now I'm in a situation where I'm kind of lost control.

[1260] No, the thing is, the special is very vulnerable.

[1261] And there are moments where I, it sounds like an oxymoron, but choose to unravel for art. And I'm in a very trusted space because my best friend is directing and I feel all right.

[1262] But I also am a performer, been a performer for many years.

[1263] and trust that.

[1264] I trust my ability as a performer to catch those things.

[1265] It's happened to me consistently like over the year.

[1266] So I never felt out of control in regards to my relationship with the audience.

[1267] There are moments where I tried to allow the true emotional state I was in to exist.

[1268] Yeah.

[1269] And even that is in the context of a show.

[1270] Like I'm still a performer trying to present a version of something and we're still capturing it for television.

[1271] And so there are moments where I gave up control but that wasn't one of them.

[1272] Like it happened.

[1273] I wasn't expecting it, but it's like a fun thing to like...

[1274] But you know, like, okay, I'm going to have to ignore that.

[1275] Normally, I would address it.

[1276] The pattern so far is you say something and I respond to it.

[1277] It was inconvenient.

[1278] Yeah, yeah.

[1279] And then as the show goes on, and I'm watching it with great recognition, or at least I think recognition, which is like, you're attempting to do the impossible.

[1280] I've just started doing this in therapy, and I'll catch myself doing my tricks.

[1281] so if you say decks why do you race motorcycles right and i'll go well i think i mean you'll probably know the real reason but i think and then i go into my explanation and i've realized i do that because the notion that this person would know something about me i don't know and what pointed out is so embarrassing that minimally i want to tell him i know that's coming yes yes and so when i'm in therapy and i'm talking i'm trying to bust myself on all my tricks and i see that happen happening on stage.

[1282] Same.

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] And you even do it once.

[1285] You laugh.

[1286] You say, I feel abandoned, and you laugh on abandon.

[1287] And you could have just plotted on.

[1288] You go, oh, that was a fake laugh.

[1289] Yeah.

[1290] It was about trying to find that honesty.

[1291] And I have to rely on, for the show, my natural sense of humor to rebound it.

[1292] But yeah, I wanted to be very truthful.

[1293] I wanted to deliver on some of the promises of the art form, right?

[1294] The art form claims to talk about.

[1295] about truth.

[1296] Bring truth to power.

[1297] Yeah, and those things.

[1298] And I was like, well, this is what it looks like for me. Yeah.

[1299] You know, and staying there was the evil conneval jump.

[1300] Yeah.

[1301] Like, can I stay there and land it?

[1302] This will sound so lofty, but it just occurred to me. I think the previous paradigm was we're going to bring truth to power and hopes that it'll enact change.

[1303] But I actually think more and more, if people could embrace truth, it would trick a lot.

[1304] oh of course it starts at home at least for me me embracing the truth affected my life i mean it sounds cliche you almost feel embarrassed to say that right like i always almost feel embarrassed to say that like oh and then i stopped lying and things got better yeah but it is that like everything changed you must have had fear or maybe you continued to have fear when you tour you just said you were at the greek so you do huge shows no that was a charity event that i was doing and had no right to detour?

[1305] Okay.

[1306] Okay.

[1307] But do you tour a lot?

[1308] I've done shows in preparation for things, in preparation for a special.

[1309] I never really tour.

[1310] Like, even I've always lived in New York or L .A., and I'll do little spots at, like, City Winery or Bell House in Brooklyn or something like that, Union Hall I love, or Largo here in L .A. Yeah, yeah.

[1311] Like, love those things.

[1312] But I'm doing my first theater show at the Wilbur in June.

[1313] I have no social media.

[1314] And so my ages are like, How are you going to promote it?

[1315] Here we go.

[1316] I'm hoping you're listening.

[1317] I'm embarrassed.

[1318] The Wilburne is here?

[1319] The Wilbur Theater in Boston in June.

[1320] Where do people go get tickets for that?

[1321] Is it already sold out?

[1322] Well, I'm hoping it will.

[1323] And I embarrassingly don't know exactly.

[1324] Find the fucking tickets.

[1325] You can pay.

[1326] Yeah, Google.

[1327] Use Google.

[1328] Yeah, I'll find it.

[1329] Thewillber .com.

[1330] Bo's family's going to be there.

[1331] I'm very excited.

[1332] Oh, wonderful.

[1333] I love his mom.

[1334] Do you like when people you know come?

[1335] What I hate about performing in LA is a lot of our friends will be there.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] Like when we travel and we're out of it in another state, I can at least go like, well, if I do shit the bed tonight, I'll just go home.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] I don't anymore.

[1340] I did.

[1341] I was very sensitive to that.

[1342] For me, what changed is on stage, I was more of a character before.

[1343] And it was a little weird for my friends to come see me like that.

[1344] Yeah, you feel fraudulent.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] I'm nervous to say this because it may like perpetuate a stereotype that gay men act a certain.

[1347] way but i'm going to say it anyways because i've observed it your physicality in your stand -up special eight which is brilliant versus your physicality once the secrets out i felt like i was watching you emerge this is so corny from the cocoon or something but i felt like you moved differently once that was out in the air that happened it happened naturally and intentionally both captured that but i told a friend that since coming out i take better pictures because i I'm not scared of looking gay.

[1348] Oh, my God.

[1349] I was just terrified that I looked gay.

[1350] And I think I associated smiling in a photo with looking gay.

[1351] It's weak.

[1352] You got to butcher up.

[1353] Back to masculinity.

[1354] Men, like, cross their arms and fold them and, like, men take the same photo, right?

[1355] Yeah, it looks stupid.

[1356] Like, over and over.

[1357] But it's like, just do what you're going to do naturally.

[1358] And I think for me, because I was closeted, I can't explain why other men do it.

[1359] But, like, I was afraid that my natural was too feminine.

[1360] It would be so obvious if you.

[1361] took a picture how you wanted to yes you were taking photos early i would have been concerned with my leg is crossed or my whatever like how do i look do i look like a man am i presenting masculinity the way i want to well i had to go so far to be hypermasculine muscles tattoos everything so i could finally sit how i want to that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying and talk how i want to do and say all this stuff i had to like ride wheelies on motorcycles and fuck all the girls and make all the money i was fucking all the girls oh my I wasted so much time, bro.

[1362] It's so exhausting.

[1363] Oh, my God.

[1364] Oh, my God.

[1365] I like to think I gave them a good time.

[1366] Yeah, I'm sure.

[1367] I'm sure they enjoyed it.

[1368] You're very charming.

[1369] At least like the snacks as much as the sucks.

[1370] This relationship with Bo Burnham, again, I was totally under a rock on him until that thing he made about quarantine that was on Netflix, Inside.

[1371] Inside is Bow's last special.

[1372] Honestly, I think I'm talking about him and thinking about him a lot because his mom, Patricia, loves this show.

[1373] Oh, she does.

[1374] And I know she'll listen.

[1375] Oh, hi, Patricia.

[1376] Patty Burnham.

[1377] Tell your son to come on, Patty.

[1378] Yeah, we love that.

[1379] I want to cry thinking about her because.

[1380] Do it.

[1381] You weak, fucking pussy.

[1382] No, I know, but she really is, like, one of the most beautiful people I've ever met and said things to me that I wish my mother had said and asked me questions that I wish my mother had asked.

[1383] gave me a lot of love and always does and I love her oh that's so special how long have you known him guy I want to say it's well if you said nine months yeah that would be amazing just a whirlwind friendship love affair he's definitely after quarantine ended but he's a friend I feel lucky to have because he's a friend that I've always like wanted have you ever seen the movie blank check yeah I mean like so long it's a kid who a guy runs over his bike and like gives him a blank check and he makes it out for a million dollars and then buys an unrealistic amount of things.

[1384] He buys like a mansion and a woman.

[1385] But it's really, really wild.

[1386] But all the things that a kid would do with, like, money is how me and Bo is like 30 -plus year old men, like, just at Disneyland more than we should be.

[1387] Just go to Universal an hour before it closes and get on rides.

[1388] We just did it.

[1389] We just all went to Disneyland and got a fucking guy.

[1390] Yeah, of course.

[1391] You don't got to whisper it.

[1392] We know you got money.

[1393] I don't.

[1394] I hate the people.

[1395] It's a big thing for.

[1396] me. Yeah, I hate it.

[1397] It feels embarrassing, but also like, I love a thing that Gwen of Paltrow said and makes her one of the truest celebrities.

[1398] She said, I'm not one of those celebrities that's going to pretend to be poor.

[1399] I respect that.

[1400] A hundred percent.

[1401] Grow up of money.

[1402] I love I check goop for a thing or two.

[1403] I love goop.

[1404] I think I'm wearing goop tonight.

[1405] Oh, my God.

[1406] Wow.

[1407] Spoiler.

[1408] I hope this episode doesn't come out before tonight.

[1409] Right now.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] This is our first live episode.

[1412] So I guess it makes sense to me. I don't know.

[1413] dude.

[1414] But after seeing inside, I was like, oh, this is very aspirational.

[1415] He's one of the most thoughtful artists, I think, of our time.

[1416] He is so aware of his own feelings and can articulate it as you would hope an artist could do.

[1417] Like, his work is immersive.

[1418] He's an artist who cares.

[1419] I feel lucky to be able to work with him.

[1420] Can I tell you something?

[1421] It's an observation I notice about closeted men.

[1422] They consistently only date tens because you're projecting something, right?

[1423] Of course, it's not crazy for a man to be gay in the entertainment industry.

[1424] It's so funny that people are like shocked by.

[1425] It's like, oh, yeah, this creative.

[1426] Yeah.

[1427] Art is so gay.

[1428] And it's also bred by probably hiding yourself, people who've hidden themselves and have had to create a pretty life.

[1429] You have to study what everyone else is doing that you don't understand.

[1430] Having a lot of awareness, a lot of awareness and that, you know, goes into aesthetic and performance and, you know, in ways that, of course, like, artists are gay.

[1431] But gay men, because they want you to think that they're the coolest, man, closet gay men will only like date or marry these picture perfect women, right?

[1432] And like, I know I'm gay because I'll fuck a six.

[1433] When I was closeted, like, it was like actresses and whatever.

[1434] And some very wonderful people, but like I had to fuck like a 10 to prove to myself.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] I'm so manly.

[1437] Look at me. I'm living the rap video.

[1438] I'm living the movie.

[1439] I'm living the thing.

[1440] Meanwhile, I was a gay man. Like, my type is bus boy.

[1441] Love it.

[1442] You show up in the all black with some flower stains on your pants, bro.

[1443] That's the thing is like not fucking for other people.

[1444] Like not choosing your type for the world.

[1445] That's a prison you're putting yourself into.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] I feel like sex is culturally, not that it's taboo, but it's kind of dead.

[1448] I've been saying sex is dead because like talking about sexual identity is hot right now.

[1449] But I'm like, who do you want to fuck?

[1450] That's all I want to know.

[1451] Yeah.

[1452] Who do you want to fuck?

[1453] Who are you fucking?

[1454] what is fucking mean for you gay straight trans it doesn't matter i want to know who you're fucking agreed and monica and i talk about this all the time if you sit down at a dinner party and someone's telling you about their career they're telling you about this there's only really one thing that anyone's going to be able to add that's kind of unique and it's basically they're kinks that's what i want to know yeah and realizing that a lot of times kinks it's a way to talk about trauma too probably my next show not to give too much way it would probably be a lot of that just like i was closeted and i'm into secret sex stairwells and cars and that type of thing like but that's created through trauma you know and their downsides to that too obviously but like yeah that's a world worth explore it's weird to encourage you to listen to an episode but we have one episode with this amazing doctor Alex catahawkus and she's a sex addiction therapist I've been questioning rather than I have sex addiction or if I was closeted and so long and now finally feel able to experience it publicly and like comfortably it's probably both it don't have to be binary well there's also this kind of existential spiral that I think, at least I've been reading about a lot of gay men experience, because you're not having children from the sex that you have.

[1455] And at some point, that can cause a little bit of a crisis.

[1456] It's the only thing that made me willing to compromise and do things I didn't want to do is that I really want to kids.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] And so if I didn't have that driving for us, I can't imagine I would have ever really been with anyone for a very long time because compromise is inevitable and I don't like to compromise.

[1459] Okay, back to Dr. Alex Katahakis.

[1460] I said to her, I don't think it's fair for people that haven't had trauma to judge how other people want to exercise their trauma.

[1461] BDSM, right?

[1462] Like, if you have this fantasy, so what, it came from something gnarly.

[1463] It's still your fantasy.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] And you still want to satiated.

[1466] So, well, as long as you're playing that out consensually, right?

[1467] Exactly.

[1468] She said that you only have to ask yourself two questions to know whether it's, quote, healthy or unhealthy, which is if it's secret and it gives you shame, then it's no good.

[1469] But like, she gave the example of a lot of women who have come from a lot of abuse, will love BDSM because they're living out the fantasy, but they're actually in control.

[1470] They set the rules ahead of time.

[1471] So it may look like they're submissive, but they're not because they're running the whole show.

[1472] Yes, it makes it safe.

[1473] And it's not a secret.

[1474] Not to get into too deep of a theory, but he and my friend worked out this theory about that's why people like Prince.

[1475] So I saw a thing where someone was talking about the argument between Prince and Michael Jackson.

[1476] Okay.

[1477] And a lot of people choose Prince.

[1478] I'm so clearly team Michael Jackson.

[1479] I think it's like not even close.

[1480] As a performer and singer?

[1481] All of it.

[1482] But he didn't write shit.

[1483] So we got to give Prince that.

[1484] He wrote a lot.

[1485] Not like Prince.

[1486] Come on.

[1487] I'll be honest.

[1488] I only know like a handful of Prince songs.

[1489] I love a lot of print songs.

[1490] But like Prince sometimes dips in a way that isn't for my ear.

[1491] Michael, I think it's a bit more of a classic.

[1492] But I think Michael's more explicit.

[1493] So Prince, I think, is for people who have sexual repression, sexual secrets.

[1494] He makes sex safe because Prince is all the illusion.

[1495] of sex but it's never really sexual go back and watch prince videos listen to prince lyrics like it's always around sex but it's never really explicit you watch purple rain for instance right there's a scene where he has the most beautiful girl in the world right and they're out by a lake and he says well first you have to purify yourself in the water of lake minnetonka right and apollonia takes off her clothes she gets fully naked and gets in the lake and it's so sexy and it's so hot and then prince looks at her and says that ain't lake mena tonka and he drives off on his motorcycle And I'm looking like, hey, bro, do you want to fuck her?

[1496] Right.

[1497] What about Nikki who he met masturbate into a magazine?

[1498] On the reverse of that song, darling Nikki, right, there's these chance that if you actually reverse the song, it has a gospel song that says, hello, how are you, fine, fine, because I know the Lord is coming soon, which is a deep dive fact.

[1499] If anyone wants to get into that, the reverse of the end of Darling Nicky, right?

[1500] He's clearly a genius and brilliant artist, one of the greatest artists of all time.

[1501] but I'm saying I think a lot of people's attraction to Prince is you don't know a lot about Prince and you don't know anything about a sexual life.

[1502] It's own mystery, but it's sexual mystery.

[1503] People who have that in their own lives, I think, are attracted to that.

[1504] Meanwhile, Michael Jackson, half of his career is a sex scandal.

[1505] Yeah, he's touching his dick all the time.

[1506] Yeah, he's touching his crotch.

[1507] It's very, very explicit, right?

[1508] And if nothing else, I mean, it sounds dark, but we know Michael was a homosexual pedophile.

[1509] What the fuck was Prince?

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] We don't even know what Prince was into.

[1512] Well, he's a drug addict.

[1513] as we found out.

[1514] Well, yeah, unfortunately, yeah.

[1515] But it's all theoretical sex and not sexual.

[1516] And so, like, those two worlds.

[1517] That's fascinating.

[1518] Those two are so fascinating.

[1519] I like crowning, because I'm in a position to do so, crowning Anderson Pack is our generation's prince.

[1520] Anderson's incredible.

[1521] His NBR Tiny Desk is.

[1522] I know.

[1523] I love it.

[1524] I've watched it a hundred times.

[1525] Oh, that's a hookup favorite.

[1526] Absolutely.

[1527] So hookup, I think NPR Tiny Desk is the perfect background noise because it's a little bit of music.

[1528] a little bit of talking.

[1529] You don't want to be inundated by a playlist.

[1530] Well, while you're giving out tips, I'll add this as a tip.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] So you have someone over, and you're like, I want you to watch this tiny desk thing with Anderson Pack.

[1533] But you don't say you want to watch it.

[1534] You just have it on.

[1535] Yeah, it's just on.

[1536] All right, well, we're just pretending in this situation.

[1537] Here's my number one pet peeve with people is like, let's say they have a favorite song.

[1538] And they go, oh, my God, I want to play you my favorite song.

[1539] Great.

[1540] I'd love to hear your favorite song.

[1541] They put the headphones on you, and then they stare at you to see how you're reacting.

[1542] I'm just asking people, just look elsewhere, make yourself busy.

[1543] I respect that.

[1544] Trust that they'll like it or they won't.

[1545] Don't stare at people to see how much they're liking your favorite thing.

[1546] Because I get really giddy when I hear a song that I love.

[1547] Like I just heard Stevie Wonder jazz reprise of Sim One Your Love is live and one of the greatest things in the world to me right now.

[1548] And I was blasting it in the car.

[1549] If I played it for y 'all, I would just - You'd want to know.

[1550] I would just be staring, smiling right now.

[1551] I want you to feel it.

[1552] But ideally, I'd just text it to you.

[1553] And also, but what would happen?

[1554] And you're justified in wanting to do.

[1555] do that.

[1556] But here's what happens to the listener.

[1557] Now I have to perform for you.

[1558] So I'm actually not enjoying the thing you want me to enjoy because I'm way too away.

[1559] It's like opening a Christmas present in front of your aunt.

[1560] A lot of times when I share in those moments, it's like with a friend who will tell me like, Bo will look at me just like, eh.

[1561] Take the headphones off and walk away.

[1562] That's why we're friends.

[1563] Because people just walk away from it.

[1564] Well, fuck, Gerard, this was awesome.

[1565] I loved talking to you.

[1566] It's a really good time.

[1567] So fun.

[1568] Your movie.

[1569] On the count of three, again, it's fucking really, really unique and new and interesting and wonderful and you did a great, great job directing it and it's well acted and it's fucking dark, which I say is a compliment.

[1570] The subject matter, it's about suicide and it's something you have to take seriously.

[1571] The reason it's funny is because it takes it so seriously that it finds like some would say blue or gallows humor in it, in this situation.

[1572] And in those situations specifically, humor is 100 % necessary.

[1573] It's the only way to actually get through it.

[1574] Even in life, what it happens when you're experiencing stuff like that, it's the only way.

[1575] Well, the story I've told in here a bunch of times, I've seen a bunch of people in movies caring for their father who's dying.

[1576] But when I did it, I took a pillow and I put it over his face and I had the nurse take a picture of me. And then I sent it to my brother and said, just wrapping things up in Detroit.

[1577] That's the reality of when you're caring for somebody.

[1578] It's like you're doing anything you can You're not just crying the miserable mood of what's happening Because you love them You want to laugh Oh my favorite line of the movie though Was one of yours and you're talking about mass shooters And you're like it's always some corny white boy Who couldn't get pussy And I hate to say it But that's really a bullseye I think for the motivator I'm sure we've actually probably unpacked some of that In talking about masculinity early Yeah yeah yeah yeah I like the word unpacked today Unpacked is a good word Let's unpack the word unpacked Okay, so on the count of three, May 13th in theaters, and then Rothaniel, I really urge everyone to watch Rothaniel on HBO Max.

[1579] Am I pronouncing your first name, right?

[1580] Rothaniel, yeah.

[1581] You know what's funny is like hearing the whole setup of it and then saying it out loud as I was writing it down because I was like, oh, it's I .E. L. Annual, Rothaniel.

[1582] I'm like, I could see feeling that like, Rothaniel, this is going to be good.

[1583] This is smooth.

[1584] I need to get Rothaniel .com.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] You need to hurry.

[1587] Yeah, I need to hurry.

[1588] It's two of his grandparents.

[1589] Robert and Nathaniel.

[1590] That's the whole setup to the show.

[1591] I hope you like it.

[1592] I'm so excited.

[1593] I'm going to love it.

[1594] I already know.

[1595] You're going to love it.

[1596] You're going to love it.

[1597] I feel like you're big enough for me to ask this question.

[1598] I don't have the answer to this.

[1599] This is just a question I asked my wife.

[1600] I'm like, I wonder what her response is.

[1601] Like navigating this incredible truth experiment you're doing while also in the back of your mind going, but I'm on a stage and this is a product as well.

[1602] Again, I don't know how I feel about it.

[1603] Like there's incredible value to it.

[1604] Like, people are seeing.

[1605] that and they're going like oh my god that's me that's me that's me i'm not alone it's so worth it yeah but then there's another voice in my head as a performer to be like well i'm not going to pay to watch you have your moment yeah and maybe it just weeds out who doesn't want to pay to watch you have your moment for me it's applying a skill to it when i'd say like i hope people like the specials because it's me as a comedian first i'm a performer i'm a comedian i respect that you are here in this room with me and i want you to be entertained right now how i define that and How you define that is artist's choice.

[1606] I guess a better way to say it would be, I'm going to bring you in with comedy, but then you're going to see a drama.

[1607] Which is fine.

[1608] I was watching Jim Carrey talk about this on an actor's roundtable.

[1609] And I saw it after we made Rothaniel, just like art that brings you in with humor and then gives you humanity.

[1610] That's what I'm talking about when you're giving my alley.

[1611] It's that.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] Without having that articulation beforehand, that's what Rothaniel is.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] I loved watching it and I'll remember it forever.

[1616] Oh, thank you for saying.

[1617] You've said things to me that I would get tatted if I had a tattoo.

[1618] This was, like, the most fun.

[1619] I get why everyone loves.

[1620] Oh, thank you.

[1621] People sending it, and I never heard, never heard a podcast before.

[1622] But I mean, like, that's great.

[1623] A, period.

[1624] Yeah, well, you're not on social media, so I know where you stand on all this.

[1625] I got some ghost accounts.

[1626] I don't want to be like a full, but I got to be honest.

[1627] And I delete them and then have new ghost accounts.

[1628] It's a whole wild ride.

[1629] Well, we had your queen on a couple times.

[1630] I'm a big defender of your queen, Gwyneth.

[1631] Hey, she's cool.

[1632] She's cool.

[1633] I love her so much.

[1634] Because of that, she is.

[1635] She owns it.

[1636] She's just like, I'm me. Honesty is super cool.

[1637] It is.

[1638] It's so sexy.

[1639] Kind of regardless of what you're saying.

[1640] And also very uncool and weird and messy.

[1641] Yeah, that's what's exciting about it.

[1642] What I'm always trying to navigate, and it's not the easiest thing.

[1643] And I step on either side of this line, but it's like, I want to be honest without being self -indulgent and self -mastropatory.

[1644] That's the tricky, in my opinion.

[1645] But that's your attention thing again.

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] My attention thing.

[1648] being worried people are going to be like he just wants attention he just it's like it's embedded in you but applying craft is important the application of some type of crap like making sure you're offering something yeah yeah is an offering Rick Rubin says a thing he thinks all art should be made as an offering to god hmm wow and I do believe that like what are you present like it's show and tell it's the intention that reads like Beyonce is a master she's like an athlete like essentially right And so the show you're watching is precision.

[1649] Like it makes sense for her to have like a clothing line with Adidas.

[1650] Right.

[1651] She is one of the number one athletes in the world.

[1652] Thousand percent.

[1653] And so that's the show.

[1654] The music's good and those things.

[1655] But that's the act.

[1656] It's like precision.

[1657] Right.

[1658] Or you're evil caneeble and you're like, I reference him a lot too because that's the show.

[1659] The danger.

[1660] And for me, it was like, all right, these things are the things I was the most afraid of saying.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] It's me walking from shadows into like me. It was just me. Like my personal things.

[1663] I thought I'd.

[1664] never say out loud.

[1665] And that was the show.

[1666] That was the package of like, all right, me as I thought I'd never want to be seen in public.

[1667] Yeah.

[1668] You know, I was thinking while I was watching it, because I one time was on a talk show or something, and I said something about my mom, and I'm so fucking close to her.

[1669] But I said some stuff in an interview, and then at first she said, like, I wish you hadn't said that.

[1670] And then I felt kind of bad.

[1671] And this is why I love her.

[1672] About a week later, she called me, and she said, I take that back.

[1673] This is your story.

[1674] story.

[1675] Everyone has a right to tell their story.

[1676] I'm in it.

[1677] I mean, I like how I'm in it sometimes, but I'm not going to try to rob you of your right to tell your story.

[1678] That's your story.

[1679] Yes, 100%.

[1680] When I was watching, I was like, God, I hope one day his mom calls him and says, you know, baby, it's your story.

[1681] I'll give my parents credit.

[1682] They don't take issue with that.

[1683] I talk about it in the special, like, my issue is lack of acknowledgement.

[1684] Just I'm gay and there's a religious divide and a lack of acknowledgement.

[1685] But you do have ownership.

[1686] I of the things that happened to you and over your story.

[1687] I'm going to go one step further.

[1688] But if I'm psychoanalyzing your mom, so yeah, there's a religious aspect.

[1689] But there's also your own mother chose to ignore a lot.

[1690] And she kind of sacrificed.

[1691] Yes.

[1692] And so for her to see that, A, you stepped out of that agreement and you're alive, reminds her that she could have.

[1693] Wow.

[1694] That's super interesting.

[1695] I've never thought of that perspective before.

[1696] Luckily, Monica's reaction was great to this, but we went and saw Hussimmanage live.

[1697] And he just destroys and he destroys by owning his Indianness.

[1698] I kind of came up with him and seeing that transition to the personal.

[1699] We were kids like just talking about the news.

[1700] Yeah.

[1701] But for Monica personally, she hit her Indianness with every ounce of her being cheerleading champ.

[1702] So much armor.

[1703] And so she saw it.

[1704] And luckily though, she has enough of her own self -esteem that she saw and she went like, oh man, I could have just been that and still been that.

[1705] I didn't think it was possible and then seeing someone else like own that in such a major way.

[1706] It was so impressive.

[1707] And she was proud of him, but it could have gone the other way.

[1708] I think it could have made you really upset with yourself.

[1709] Maybe if I didn't feel like I had stuff going on for myself.

[1710] You've now owned it.

[1711] If you're still in the phase of you not owning it as much, maybe it would have been different.

[1712] I'm also on that road now as well.

[1713] But I would wonder too if you wouldn't connect with this material if he weren't being truthful.

[1714] I think I was doing that, right?

[1715] Like, I think when I would say things that weren't necessarily the truth, it would cause contention.

[1716] Yeah.

[1717] It didn't make people feel good.

[1718] When I say things that aren't truthful, lies would get lies.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] You can feel it.

[1721] You can feel it.

[1722] And I think it causes more confusion.

[1723] Wow, we really did cover a lot.

[1724] I'm like now quoting us from earlier.

[1725] I was going to quote a lot of it from earlier, but like, yeah.

[1726] About connections.

[1727] and the things we were saying earlier.

[1728] Yeah, like seeing his show and him doing that and him owning it in such a real way.

[1729] And me like being able to laugh really hard, I was like, yeah, I am that.

[1730] Yes.

[1731] And I never wanted to be that.

[1732] And if anything would have been like, I'm not like that.

[1733] If this was 10 years ago.

[1734] She hated when Bendit, like Beckham was popular.

[1735] Like if anyone asked me, did you see that?

[1736] I'd be like, no. Like, why would I see that?

[1737] I'm white.

[1738] Out of like fear and necessity, you built who you are.

[1739] and anything out there threatening that?

[1740] Exactly.

[1741] Because you can see it as a threat.

[1742] Oh, yeah.

[1743] It's like, no, no, no, no, don't think I'm that.

[1744] Because you've been working so hard to not be that.

[1745] Exactly.

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] Representation does matter.

[1748] And good, thoughtful representation matters.

[1749] And I think about that a lot, especially even just telling black stories.

[1750] I think I have more value with the truth because it can also go the other way where I had a show about my family, right?

[1751] Again, we grew up poor and a lot of that perspective is rooted in that.

[1752] And I have to be truthful about that, right?

[1753] And if I wrote us, like, we were the huxtables and wrote, like, the perspective to represent all black people instead of representing the ones that I know and who I am.

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] Again, not the truth.

[1756] It wouldn't have connected with people in the way that I've felt and seen it connect with people.

[1757] Yeah, it could have been successful, but it wouldn't have been meaningful.

[1758] Truth is resonance.

[1759] Oh, Gerard.

[1760] This was a blast.

[1761] I thought it would be.

[1762] And it was.

[1763] Thank you.

[1764] Good luck on everything.

[1765] And everybody check out on the count of three, May 13th.

[1766] And Rothaniel on HBO Max.

[1767] Come back.

[1768] Please come back.

[1769] I love to.

[1770] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1771] Rathaniel.

[1772] Rathaniel.

[1773] Rathaniel.

[1774] Name's not as bad as he thinks.

[1775] It's not.

[1776] Of course, nothing's as bad as you think about yourself.

[1777] If you see a little bug.

[1778] You've got a visitor.

[1779] There's little bugs in here.

[1780] If you hadn't driven that mouse out of here, you wouldn't have that problem because it would eat the bug.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] But then I'd have that mouse out of here.

[1783] have a mouse.

[1784] You'd prefer a bug.

[1785] And then I would have given that mouse COVID.

[1786] It would have died.

[1787] Mini C on a mouse.

[1788] Small C for a small M. Yeah.

[1789] I almost think I'd rather have a mouse because I have, just to keep you updated, I have a bite of some variety on my forearm.

[1790] Oh, no. Is it a spider?

[1791] And it's so itchy.

[1792] It's bizarre shape.

[1793] There's like three dots.

[1794] I think a spider got at me. Oh, no. Because I think if it were a squato, it would have gone away.

[1795] by now.

[1796] How long?

[1797] How long have I had it?

[1798] I'm going on day three of this.

[1799] Okay.

[1800] And then I start thinking like, oh, is this actually a skin fungus or something?

[1801] But I'm pretty sure it's a bite.

[1802] It's got like dots.

[1803] But in this case, way rather have a mouse in my bedroom than whatever thing attacked me in my slumber.

[1804] Yeah.

[1805] Every time spiders come up.

[1806] I never used to be scared of them.

[1807] Yeah.

[1808] But I am scared of now.

[1809] Oh, you always think of my friend.

[1810] Yeah.

[1811] Yeah, brown recluse.

[1812] Although that's I guess as he's gotten farther away from that event, that's less certain, I guess.

[1813] Oh, really?

[1814] I don't know.

[1815] Yeah.

[1816] When I was first told about it, it was, yeah, induced by a brown recluse.

[1817] But it seems like it might be bigger than that or something different.

[1818] Oh, okay.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] Yeah, it's brutal, brutal.

[1821] But small infections can turn into death.

[1822] Small infections come in really big packages.

[1823] You know what they say.

[1824] You know what they say.

[1825] So obviously the listener will already know.

[1826] You're not over the Little C yet.

[1827] No, I'm not.

[1828] It's very disappointing.

[1829] You had a different expectation.

[1830] I really did.

[1831] I did too.

[1832] Head cold, 24 hours.

[1833] Hit it and quit it, you know?

[1834] Hit it and quit it, your style.

[1835] Well, that's the thing.

[1836] You hit Rob and I on Sunday going like, I feel crappy.

[1837] I'm going to take a test in the morning.

[1838] And I thought, okay, probably the little C, she'll be back in business on Wednesday.

[1839] Yeah.

[1840] Like full force.

[1841] Full throttle.

[1842] Full throttle.

[1843] But it's Thursday.

[1844] And you're not doing so hot.

[1845] Now, granted, you're not going downhill.

[1846] That's right.

[1847] I'm getting better.

[1848] It's just moving slowly and that's dumb.

[1849] Well, you're a tiny little host.

[1850] I know, but I'm mighty too.

[1851] I know, but I have a bigger immune system to bring to bear on this.

[1852] It's the same amount that enters uranized nose.

[1853] I have to imagine just because I'm bigger, I have more immune, whatever that means.

[1854] Whatever that means.

[1855] There's a lot of lovely guys.

[1856] I love to talk to you.

[1857] I don't know if that's true or not.

[1858] Although it probably is because little babies.

[1859] Little tiny babies.

[1860] Small.

[1861] I mean, so small.

[1862] I think that's maybe because they don't have the whole.

[1863] They haven't registered all the different.

[1864] Yeah.

[1865] You're right.

[1866] Okay.

[1867] But I have been sheltered.

[1868] You have been.

[1869] Shelter in place.

[1870] That's what's been happening.

[1871] We love Girard.

[1872] Oh, my God.

[1873] God, we loved him.

[1874] I sensed, you know what was crazy?

[1875] I fell in love with his actual material.

[1876] Aside from him being a great guest, I really, really enjoy his stand -up, which I was out to lunch on.

[1877] But then what was crazy is post -having him is when I watched the Kanye West documentary.

[1878] I love, have you watched it yet?

[1879] I haven't watched it yet.

[1880] I want you to watch it.

[1881] I started it.

[1882] I want you to stop what you're doing right now and watch all seven hours of it and then we'll resume.

[1883] No, I really, really loved it for a trillion reasons.

[1884] But one of the things was in his, whatever his church services he does, they kept cutting to this guy and it was drawed.

[1885] He was there.

[1886] No way.

[1887] Yes.

[1888] And had we not interviewed him and I hadn't become hip to his thing, I think I would have been a little bit like why they keep cut into this guy who's listening.

[1889] You know what I'm saying?

[1890] Yeah, like, who's that?

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] But then I was just excited because I was like, oh, we just met him.

[1893] And he's there.

[1894] Oh, my God.

[1895] Simmy.

[1896] Speaking of docs.

[1897] Yeah.

[1898] I just got to tell everyone what I've been up to, you know, while I've been sick.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] Hoping you're making good use of this time.

[1901] Trying.

[1902] So I watched the after party.

[1903] We already talked about that.

[1904] And I'm just so you know, I'm like episode six now.

[1905] Oh, you are?

[1906] Are you enjoying it?

[1907] Yeah, I am.

[1908] I am for sure.

[1909] It's just very enjoyable.

[1910] It's very enjoyable.

[1911] And then there's a couple real just standout performers in it that I love.

[1912] Like it just as much as I thought I loved Sam Richardson at like a 10, but there was still room to love him more.

[1913] he's so spectacular he really is he can do everything i love him the other aside from sam is ike is so fucking awesome in that show he really is he is he's so good i love his episode um yeah great great great show great show yeah and then after the after party after the after party is the hotel lobby after the party after that's right yeah no it's after the after party after the after party after party hotel lobby.

[1914] After the party is the hotel lobby.

[1915] Oh, okay.

[1916] Right?

[1917] Yeah, close.

[1918] I don't know.

[1919] Those words are all in there.

[1920] It makes more sense that there's a party after party then the hotel lobby.

[1921] But whatever.

[1922] We're trying to understand a man. You know, we're trying to understand an obscure man. Rob, look up the lyrics.

[1923] Give me that ooh -oh, but I invited that peepie.

[1924] That was an anthem.

[1925] It's a song fiesta.

[1926] I'm not realizing how few of the, those lyrics I understood.

[1927] Yeah, this is hard to search when...

[1928] Oh, I'll look it up.

[1929] R. Kelly.

[1930] Is it Fiesta?

[1931] No. Oh, it's hotel lobby.

[1932] No, it's...

[1933] Ignition.

[1934] Yeah, getting straight out the kitchen.

[1935] Back on ignition.

[1936] Yeah, and after the party, it's the hotel lobby.

[1937] Oh, good victory.

[1938] Good job.

[1939] It's then after the show, it's the after party.

[1940] Yeah, and the after the party, it's the hotel lobby.

[1941] So they do have an after party line.

[1942] Wow, so we're kind of...

[1943] kind of a dual victory that's yes okay thanks for granting me that in high school my senior year the theater department which i was in uh we wrote a play and it was a big deal it was like that's never happened before first ever first ever and we spent all year writing it ding ding ding ding euphoria oh my god yeah okay continue sorry you know we had these little different groups and we wrote different kind of sketches really and it was about high school and then we made it about our high school kind of specifically like that we had very euphoria yeah it is i mean it was really about high school in general but then we had like a principal come out who was our principal a little easter egg um it was really fun it was called standing naked in public racy name for a public high school yeah and i remember we all submitted names and we all voted i voted for shoots and social ladders but it didn't win.

[1944] And I'm glad.

[1945] You love wordplay.

[1946] Yeah.

[1947] Yeah.

[1948] But I love standing naked in public.

[1949] Anyway, it was a huge hit.

[1950] We did it for three nights and it sold out.

[1951] That doesn't happen in high school theater at Duluth anyway.

[1952] Runaway hit.

[1953] Word spread.

[1954] The community came out.

[1955] Everyone loved it.

[1956] And that song played.

[1957] Oh, no. You don't attribute the success of the play to that song.

[1958] Of course not.

[1959] Were you just coattailing it?

[1960] Okay.

[1961] No, no. I attribute my success.

[1962] to remembering the lyrics to that play.

[1963] For that important three nights.

[1964] Because I don't remember anything in music.

[1965] You know that.

[1966] Yeah, seminal.

[1967] Three nights of your life that are very memorable.

[1968] Okay, so back to after party.

[1969] Okay, watch the after party.

[1970] And I'll be honest, I watched it twice.

[1971] Oh, my God.

[1972] No, because I wanted to sleep, but I wanted something on.

[1973] Okay, okay, okay.

[1974] Then I thought, I need something darker.

[1975] Yeah.

[1976] I want something scary.

[1977] And you're already caught up under the banner?

[1978] Yeah.

[1979] So you didn't have that.

[1980] Okay.

[1981] I didn't have that.

[1982] So I went with doapsick.

[1983] It is great.

[1984] And I watched the whole thing.

[1985] And it is.

[1986] Isn't it great?

[1987] It's great.

[1988] And it is so, it is so heavy.

[1989] It is so depressing.

[1990] And it's so well done and feels so real.

[1991] Mm -hmm.

[1992] Remember I was watching it, And I was like, I don't know, you know, if this, mind you, every sober person I know watched it.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] I just thought it was great.

[1995] Michael Keaton's so fucking great in it, isn't he?

[1996] Yeah.

[1997] And that girl.

[1998] Oh, yeah, the girl's incredible.

[1999] Yeah.

[2000] And you said that you feel like in the sobriety community, everyone's like this really nails it.

[2001] Yep.

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] Yeah.

[2004] Yeah, it's funny because I think someone was mad at me. Well, I shouldn't say that.

[2005] They weren't mad at me. They just simply pushed back on me saying.

[2006] that Rue would be more isolated, but then someone messaged me, hey, I wasn't isolated in my addiction, which is fine.

[2007] I'm not saying everyone is at all, but just comparing the life of an attic in dopesick versus euphoria to two drastically different approaches.

[2008] I love both.

[2009] I cannot be clear enough that I fucking love euphoria.

[2010] I think it's one of the five best shows ever.

[2011] It's so well done.

[2012] Oh, and beautiful.

[2013] Oh, I saw the scene you were talking about with the boy I love.

[2014] Rue's love interest.

[2015] Oh, I know.

[2016] I was like, oh, he can sing like that, too?

[2017] I know.

[2018] Oh, what a fucking heartthrob he is.

[2019] Man, is he's got it all.

[2020] He's gorgeous, he's subtle, he's deep, he's conflicted.

[2021] He's just sexy.

[2022] He's a sexy motherfucker.

[2023] Okay, so dobsick.

[2024] That was, you know, really intense.

[2025] I would really recommend it.

[2026] Just know you're getting into some heavy stuff.

[2027] Some deepness.

[2028] And then I should have followed that up with something light.

[2029] You know, I should be flip -flopping.

[2030] Yep, you should.

[2031] Clean your palate and then back in.

[2032] But since I had just edited Gerard and we were talking about docs on female singers, I think we brought up the Amy Winehouse one.

[2033] And I was like, oh, yeah, that's one I haven't seen.

[2034] So I watched that after dopesick.

[2035] Really uplifting.

[2036] Really, really.

[2037] Yes, yes.

[2038] Wow.

[2039] That was a big dose of heartache.

[2040] That one's really heartbreaking.

[2041] I mean, they're all heartbreaking.

[2042] The Whitney one's heartbreaking.

[2043] But that one is, that's really, that gale was really struggling.

[2044] She really was.

[2045] Also from her early days.

[2046] They have so much footage of her, which is kind of incredible.

[2047] you do see a lot of this journey.

[2048] And like you see her when she's first signing.

[2049] She's at the very beginning of her career.

[2050] And every time the camera's on her, she's like, I don't look good.

[2051] Like she's like always noticing.

[2052] She always thinks she doesn't look good.

[2053] Yeah.

[2054] She's imprisoned by it.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] And you see this incredible person and hear this incredible voice.

[2057] And she has this beautiful personality.

[2058] and then you just see her, like, hating herself.

[2059] Yeah.

[2060] Yes, she's really, really stricken with it.

[2061] It's not surprising that she falls in love with people who make her feel beautiful or make her feel...

[2062] Appreciate her for that.

[2063] Yeah.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] And then they bring her down ultimately.

[2066] Like, oh.

[2067] That was a tough ride.

[2068] That's a tough ride.

[2069] Yeah, yeah.

[2070] But, man, it like, it is one of the greater examples of, A, people thought she was beautiful yeah she was she was the only one that couldn't see it which is true i have this really i have a best friend monica he's got touches of it and it's mad i mean from the outside but and then there's another part people hate when i say this but i didn't like how i looked right but i also just said and fuck it right i don't i guess what i don't look how i chose i accept that it ain't changing i know i think it's hard it's hard and i mean i mean This is hard for everyone.

[2071] I know it is.

[2072] But there is a heightened pressure on women and comparing.

[2073] Well, also just even if she wasn't a woman, she's not magazine covers.

[2074] She's in videos.

[2075] But I didn't mean before that.

[2076] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2077] Even as just young girls are compared to one another.

[2078] This grows so pretty.

[2079] It just gets embedded early on in females.

[2080] Yeah, so I'm of the opinion that guys suffer from it miserably too, which is why people do steroids and too.

[2081] But what I will concede easily on is there's at least a trillard.

[2082] million examples in media of pretty average -looking dudes with hot girls.

[2083] And who are successful.

[2084] Right.

[2085] So, like, success for men has equaled attraction historically.

[2086] And there's not been a bunch of examples, if any, were.

[2087] The woman was just so successful.

[2088] Everyone was in love with her.

[2089] No, it's the opposite.

[2090] It's you have to be beautiful in order to get love.

[2091] Yeah.

[2092] To be successful and to get love.

[2093] Uniquely cruel to women, yeah.

[2094] Yeah.

[2095] And she is so beautiful.

[2096] I'm like staring at her face and I'm like look at her eyes like oh anyway it was just so sad and then it made me think of the little sign on our wall the you sign and she's on that sign yes we're both on that sign I makes me just hate those people so much especially in sight of her killing herself with alcohol you're like the person who fucking pitched that yeah this little thing hanging would you date amy wine house the person who pitched it did they have a pang of guilt like oh i guess i was a part of that i know oh anyway so that was sad yeah thanks for thanks for walking us through that sorry to bring it down but it is a ding ding ding because we did talk about girl docs we did it's it's drug nice fault we we this is the seed we planted so i guess it's me i apologize listeners That's what I'm asking.

[2097] I'm asking for an apology.

[2098] And I owe everyone one.

[2099] No, we talk about sad stuff.

[2100] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[2101] We love sad stuff.

[2102] Yeah, it's part of life.

[2103] We love stuff.

[2104] We do love stuff.

[2105] I did just get a purse.

[2106] Oh, I just ordered a bunch of yellow notepads.

[2107] So excited.

[2108] I have so many.

[2109] My kids, I can't keep one in the house.

[2110] My kids drawn every fucking page.

[2111] Yeah.

[2112] So now I got like a secret stash for them.

[2113] I also have, I think I told you, I got some breakfast bars.

[2114] that I'm keeping in the attic so they can't eat them.

[2115] Sure, sure, sure.

[2116] Oh, my God.

[2117] I went from having, like, an older brother who stole all my stuff to now kids who steal all my stuff.

[2118] Yeah, and you can't really get that mad at the kids.

[2119] No, no, I can't.

[2120] That's the difference.

[2121] One day I'll have all my stuff.

[2122] And you'll be so sad because the kids will be gone.

[2123] You're exactly right.

[2124] I want to be alone on an island where no one can take my stuff, and then it'll be sad with all my stuff.

[2125] too much stuff and nobody here okay so I watched the special after we talked I mean I loved it of course it was up my alley as everyone predicted and I thought it was really so special and I hope people watch it yeah it was cool you know what I was happy about is at the end of that special he says you know I'm not nice either like he tells on himself for not being nice I thought I thought he was very nice no but he's saying it like we say which is the truth.

[2126] It's just, what does that even mean?

[2127] Like, people say, like, that's such a nice person.

[2128] And that's real, but people are layered.

[2129] Like, no one's just nice all the time.

[2130] Well, we know a couple people, but yeah, in general.

[2131] Like, Amy Hansen's just fucking, goddamn nice.

[2132] She's the only one.

[2133] Yeah, she's the only one we got.

[2134] She's a unicorn.

[2135] She really is.

[2136] And very attractive, too.

[2137] She didn't have to be nice.

[2138] She could have been a bitch.

[2139] I know.

[2140] Yeah, she could have gotten away with being a bitch.

[2141] She's just like a true angel on earth.

[2142] If I shouldn't call a woman a bitch, huh?

[2143] I should say asshole.

[2144] She could have been an asshole.

[2145] Yeah, okay, that's better.

[2146] That was good.

[2147] Take two.

[2148] Okay, how much are T -Rex skulls?

[2149] Mm, good.

[2150] On October 6, 2020, a mysterious buyer paid a record -breaking $31 .8 million for the famous Tyrannosaurus rex skeleton known as Stan.

[2151] Oh, Stan?

[2152] He owns Stan or she owns Stan?

[2153] Yep.

[2154] What if you and I went to a bank to pitch them this business?

[2155] Like, we need a loan to buy this thing because it's worth this much money as our sex hotel.

[2156] Exactly.

[2157] Try to get them to fund it.

[2158] Okay, continue.

[2159] The rare most complete skeleton of the dinosaur quickly vanished from the public eye.

[2160] Ooh.

[2161] What?

[2162] That means, like, it didn't enter a museum.

[2163] It's in someone's home now.

[2164] No one knows where it's at, aka Leonardo DiCaprio.

[2165] I mean, right?

[2166] He's got to have it, right?

[2167] Right?

[2168] Does he have Stan?

[2169] I hope so.

[2170] Oh my God, the hotel can just be called Stan.

[2171] Yes.

[2172] Lay down in Stan.

[2173] That's like a cool hotel name, Stan.

[2174] It is very cool, especially if there's only room as a T -Rex skull.

[2175] Yeah, it's extra cool.

[2176] When was Last King of Scotland, 2006?

[2177] Oh, boy, 16 years ago.

[2178] I got snowed into the movie theater the night that movie came out in Chicago.

[2179] And you watched it.

[2180] you were inside and when you came out.

[2181] Well, I was a projectionist then.

[2182] Oh, Rob.

[2183] What?

[2184] Right?

[2185] Oh, my God.

[2186] It's like James Bond.

[2187] There's a big snowstorm in Chicago, and that was coming out the next day, and we got stuck there and just watched it three times.

[2188] Oh, my God, fun.

[2189] Was it on film?

[2190] Are you, like, changing over reels?

[2191] Yeah, well, I was the one that would build them on film, let's play them together, but you don't change the, like, you build it on a big platter and then hit play.

[2192] Platter, ding, ding, ding.

[2193] Oh, my God.

[2194] We love seafood platter.

[2195] Pooh -poo platter.

[2196] Look at these secret skills of raw.

[2197] Some of the ding -ding -dings are made up.

[2198] No, no. I just like to say, now a ding -ding -ding itself is a, qualifies as a ding -ding -ding.

[2199] Is it a ding -ding -ding?

[2200] Yeah.

[2201] Jada Pinkett Smith.

[2202] Her first film was Menace to Society.

[2203] Oh, what a breakout role.

[2204] But she was in shows.

[2205] Oh, television.

[2206] program oh i think yeah i was gonna say i think she's even on different world yeah yeah and you know she was like best friends with tupac oh really yeah they went to the same like art school and they were been they were best friends yeah the whole ride whoa oh sad it's sad again okay sorry again i'll try to just point out friends she has that are still with us okay please okay okay Winston salem named after cigarettes.

[2207] Winston is an American brand of cigarettes, currently owned and manufactured by ITG brands, subsidiary of Imperial Tobacco in the United States and by Japan tobacco outside of the United States.

[2208] The brand is named after the town where R .J. Reynolds started his business, which is Winston's Salem, North Carolina.

[2209] And there's also Salem's, you know, menthol.

[2210] Oh, I didn't know that.

[2211] Yeah.

[2212] I don't know a lot about cigarettes.

[2213] You missed out, yeah.

[2214] But you know what I do know about?

[2215] Pies.

[2216] Oh, are they famous for a pie?

[2217] Well, there's a pie shop in Los Angeles called Winstons.

[2218] It's an amazing pie shop.

[2219] Several pies from there.

[2220] Same.

[2221] And it is, that is named after Winston -Salem.

[2222] Oh, it is?

[2223] Because the guy grew up there.

[2224] Yeah.

[2225] Wow, you grew up there, you can't help but name a business after it.

[2226] That's right.

[2227] Winston was a big sponsor in NASCAR.

[2228] There's even the Winston Cup series.

[2229] Oh, I know that name.

[2230] Yeah.

[2231] If a guy was flipping you off in a pickup truck, where I grew up.

[2232] Odds are there were a couple boxes of Winston's on the dashboard.

[2233] Okay.

[2234] That's the kind of brand.

[2235] What is the difference between that and Marlboro's?

[2236] So Marlbrose were, I started off smoking Marlboro lights.

[2237] Very, very popular brand.

[2238] I'd say it's the Budweiser of cigarettes.

[2239] Okay, great.

[2240] And Winston's more like the Natty Light.

[2241] And I want to be careful.

[2242] I don't want to get sued by Winston.

[2243] But it's a little more raucous.

[2244] You're a little more assholes.

[2245] elbows and then for your elevated smoker like i was like say the apple i'm going to call it the apple of cigarettes mackintosh was camelites oh really yes like everyone in the punk rock scene smoke camelites camelites is like it's a little edgier well and then american american spirits eventually so i would harken to guess and this is pulled out of my asshole i would say that 80 % of american spirit smokers were originally camelites smokers that transitioned into a more natural tobacco, all natural.

[2246] Okay.

[2247] Now, what would the Hermes be?

[2248] Well, you got John Players, JPL, John Paul B. out, John Players, that was fancy.

[2249] Oh, there were certain ones that came like in a box, and if you ever flew internationally, you'd pick up some.

[2250] Fuck, there's a really well -known one that people would dabble in.

[2251] But again, no one really had money for fancies.

[2252] I mean, Aaron and I in high school, we smoked GP.

[2253] Cs, we smoke, like, all these knockoff brands.

[2254] It'd be like three packs for five bucks and they burnt so quickly.

[2255] At some point, we're like, I think it works out ratio -wise that they're the same price as camel lights because you've got to smoke two or three of them to get that slow burn of a camel light.

[2256] There's a brand called Treasurer that was the most expensive.

[2257] Oh, I've never heard of $60 a pack.

[2258] 60 bucks.

[2259] There's a luxury black that was 67 bucks.

[2260] Then there was a whole, there was a syndicate of people who also smoked Jarms, D -J -A -R -M -S, I think J -R -M -S, I think they're Indian in origin.

[2261] And they've got like clover in them.

[2262] They're very, very aromatic and I don't even think they have nicotine in them, Jarms.

[2263] Oh, clover, cigarettes.

[2264] That's a thing, yeah.

[2265] So, okay, sorry, back to menthol.

[2266] So it just has menthol in it as well?

[2267] Menthal.

[2268] Yeah, it's got a flavor to it.

[2269] Oh.

[2270] But standard to, but standard to, tobacco, but, uh, yeah.

[2271] It had a minty taste?

[2272] You know, menthol, you know, like, if you're in a steam room and it's got eucalyptus, that kind of smell, that mentholi, mentholatum, Vicks vapor rub.

[2273] Oh, that's, that's to me minty.

[2274] Yeah, I'll co -sign on that, but, but it's a unique unto itself.

[2275] Like, you wouldn't call Vicks vapor rub minty.

[2276] Would you?

[2277] I think I would.

[2278] Okay, then you would call, uh, Newport's and Cools in Salem's minty.

[2279] Okay.

[2280] My father smoked menthol, Vantage 100s, menthol, the most obscure cigarette.

[2281] I don't know why he fucking smoked them.

[2282] I had a hole in the filter.

[2283] That's what was novel about those.

[2284] And we would sometimes have to drive to six, seven gas stations so he could pick up his five.

[2285] And he bought it by the carton.

[2286] He had to, because you didn't know where they were going to have these.

[2287] Live it in a dish.

[2288] I understand.

[2289] He was a classy man. I think it was like a way for him, like, to acknowledge he was classy.

[2290] Yeah.

[2291] So maybe that was like a Nord -Tay.

[2292] Nordstrom.

[2293] Yeah, absolutely.

[2294] My father loved Nordstrom.

[2295] Yeah.

[2296] He loved shopping at Lord and Taylor.

[2297] They had like a full polo shop.

[2298] Area.

[2299] He loved polo.

[2300] And he'd bathe in that obsession, clone by Calvin Klein and bang back those vantage menthols.

[2301] What a man. What an aroma.

[2302] Yeah.

[2303] You get into his car and it was like, I'm in my dad's car.

[2304] You got a blindfold to me. Did Pryor grow up in a brothel?

[2305] He grew up at first in a brothel Run by his grandmother Marie In which his father worked as a pimp And his mother as a prostitute Yep, there you go That's again sad Yeah I mean he took lemons and made a big old pot of lemonade with it I know, it's incredible Yeah, but the fact that he didn't die Well, I was going to say he didn't die of drug overdose But he damn near died of drug What did he die?

[2306] He died of drug.

[2307] of MS.

[2308] Oh, he did?

[2309] Yes.

[2310] You know, MS is an interesting disease.

[2311] I don't think people really know what it's caused by, but you know, your mylon sheath around your nerves erodes.

[2312] Also, cocaine does nerve damage.

[2313] I don't know if you could accelerate that or whatever, but he, his big thing was he free -based cocaine and he caught himself on fire.

[2314] He was in the hospital for a while.

[2315] Oh, boy.

[2316] My God.

[2317] He does as this famous story that's kind of funny.

[2318] I don't know if you'll think it's funny, but he had a buddy in comedy, Richard Pryor, and then he really hit.

[2319] He became huge and he called his buddy up i don't know if this is apocryphal or not but he called his buddy up he had a house in sunset plaza somewhere he said you know i got a a kilo of coke and i got like six gorgeous girls and then his buddy came over and he came in and then he sat down to do a line of coke he goes what are you doing he goes you invited me over he goes i just wanted you to see what i was up to get the fuck out of you that might have even been one of his standouts yeah he just wanted to see how good he was living then he kicked him out oh boy you should watch i imagine you haven't watched any of richard priors like full routines nobody ever like him he's uh he's he's michael jordan i mean he is he is so next level and especially for the era he was doing he would do these like i have all these tapes of him doing smaller shows before he's huge and he'll be in a club in new york in like the 70s and he'll go everyone in here is suck the dick right i suck the dick And the dudes are just getting so uncomfortable.

[2320] And he just doesn't mind saying he's straight.

[2321] And he's just telling you about time he sucked a dick when he was young.

[2322] And you're like, that in the 70s, who could do that?

[2323] Yeah.

[2324] Brave.

[2325] Yeah.

[2326] Anywho, I love him.

[2327] It's number one.

[2328] Speaking of also someone you love Prince.

[2329] How many songs did Prince write?

[2330] It's all estimated.

[2331] Estimates of the complete number of songs written by Prince Range anywhere.

[2332] from 500 to well over 1 ,000.

[2333] That's not very helpful.

[2334] And then Michael, he penned more than 150 songs.

[2335] Oh, so yeah, I was dead wrong.

[2336] I got taken to school.

[2337] He did do a fair amount of writing.

[2338] Yeah, I had no idea.

[2339] I didn't know he had written 150 songs.

[2340] Yeah.

[2341] I thought Quincy Jones just put all that together.

[2342] Oh, you know what's exciting?

[2343] My designer, who I love, she moved to offices, and the office is Quincy Jones's old office.

[2344] Oh, that is exciting.

[2345] Yeah, so when I went there, I could, like, feel the vibes.

[2346] The ju -ju?

[2347] Yeah, the jush.

[2348] I told you I've been lucky enough to go over to his house because of Rashida.

[2349] Rashida, yep.

[2350] She had a birthday party there.

[2351] And I walked into his, like, his office.

[2352] And you've just never seen this many gold records.

[2353] And then what it says underneath of them is, like, these numbers don't exist.

[2354] this now, like 75 million copies sold.

[2355] Oh, my God.

[2356] 42 million.

[2357] I bet he's, he's been a part of a billion records sold.

[2358] Oh, it's incredible.

[2359] What a room.

[2360] I'm not normally into, like, trophies, but that one fucking knocked me on my ass.

[2361] I was like, what a gangster room this is.

[2362] That's how, there was an architectural digest, you know, that's one of my videos, house tours.

[2363] And one was Serena.

[2364] Oh, great.

[2365] Williams.

[2366] And she has a room as well.

[2367] And I felt like that.

[2368] Just like the amount and she owns it.

[2369] And I'm like, yeah, you should.

[2370] You earn that.

[2371] Yeah.

[2372] Yeah.

[2373] It's very cool.

[2374] Anywho.

[2375] Okay.

[2376] So the reverse of the end of Darling Nikki.

[2377] Yeah.

[2378] It says, hello, how are you?

[2379] Fine.

[2380] Because I know that the Lord is coming soon, coming, coming soon.

[2381] Okay.

[2382] So I'm going to play it.

[2383] Okay.

[2384] So remind me, he's saying it's being played backwards at the same time?

[2385] In reverse, at the end, yeah.

[2386] At the end, there's like some like sounds that sound kind of gibberishy.

[2387] Yeah, Black Sabbathy.

[2388] I had no idea I was being brainwashed as a kid.

[2389] That's crazy.

[2390] Oh.

[2391] Oh, my God, it's now taunting us.

[2392] Oh, my gosh, brainwashed.

[2393] Yeah.

[2394] So that's exciting.

[2395] Big time.

[2396] That's what happens when you play our theme song backwards too.

[2397] I wish.

[2398] I wish we had a hidden message.

[2399] I do too.

[2400] Hidden messages are cool.

[2401] They're almost as cool as mixed messages.

[2402] I like mixed more.

[2403] That's actually all.

[2404] That was everything?

[2405] Oh, wow.

[2406] Well, I want to Easter egg something.

[2407] We just recorded a bunch of armchair anonymouses today.

[2408] Yes.

[2409] We heard one today.

[2410] I'll leave it at that.

[2411] We heard one.

[2412] We heard that we've been waiting to hear our whole lives.

[2413] Let's say that.

[2414] Yes, and a really wholesome version of it that I like, I get behind.

[2415] Yeah, the best.

[2416] All right, well, that's an Easter egg.

[2417] All right, I love you.

[2418] Me, Wabi, and the armcherrys are rooting for your speedy and safe recovery.

[2419] We love you.

[2420] We're sorry you're ill. That's okay.

[2421] Thank you.

[2422] And we love you.

[2423] Love you.

[2424] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app.

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